re: OFFICIAL "The Wire" M/TV Board rewatch thread (current discussion starts ~p. 53)

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In addition to these ommissions and changes, they omitted the traditional chief/commissioner split as is common on most major police departments, again, likely for simplicity, rather than trying to avoid historical accuracy.

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The commissioner was in an episode of Season 1.

-i love daniels' face after prez socks valchek

-frickin ziggy

-bunk on a motherfrickin boat

-nicky at the greeks "i don't know no spiros"

-"lamar, where's my harpers?"

-"COLLEGE KIDS AIN'T shite"

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Is th Greeks bringing in dope for Barskdale or Prop Joe. Things are a little confusing.

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The dope comes from Columbia and the Greeks use their connect at the docks to get it off the ship. Prop Joe buys from the Greeks.

I'm catching up with old posts, so bear with my next few responding to shite from a few pages ago. Anyway...

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Herc notes they are going after white boys so its his turn to do the hand to hands and Carv and Kima can be on the roof. Herc with his props profiling during the hand to hands was pretty funny, really the only time so far i liked Herc

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That was pretty funny. "It's all in the details.." as he lips the toothpick over and over.

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Meanwhile they are asking Nick for some chemicals. Nick is worried they might be for a bomb or something so they research at the library. Nick seems kind of young to be that clueless about the internet. This was done in 2003 not 1995. Is this supposed to be symbolic of a class thing, being left behind by technology? Anyway they find out it is used for processing cocaine.

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It's so hard to picture things pre-internet these days. I was in grad school in 2003, and we were on the internet all the time. But I was a middle class white kid in grad school at LSU. I imagine people like Nick weren't too familiar with it back then and they didn't spend the previous years dicking around on AOL and Newsgroups.

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Bunk tries hard but just doesn't have what Lester or McNulty have.

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I don't think so. IMO Bunk is as good as Jimmy is. I'm not sure anybody is as good as Lester at putting shite together (you could maybe argue Prez though?), but Bunk is definitely good poe-leese.

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That's why I'm thinking it has to be over Donette. Plus I don't think the prosecution could use what D knows now, they cut deals with Avon, double jeopardy would attach to some of it and WeeBay copped to the murders pretty much, nothing D could give them anymore.

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In no way at all is it about Donette. Dee is in prison for a long arse time. So String fricking Donette is irrelevant to him, and it's not like he could know anyway.

It's all about getting rid of a liability. And you are severely undermining how much Dee knows. Not only is he very well connected in B&B, but he was running a tower by himself, was successful running the low levels in the Pit, was book smart and street smart (though not as much as he liked to think), knew who did what and basically how all aspects of B&B were run, went on an actual drug run test that time, etc. Dude is about as in the know as it gets outside of maybe 3 or 4 people inside B&B. Stringer knew that. shite, Avon knew that as well, but let his love for his family override what's right to do.

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I see the parallels, but it isn't perfect. The Barksdale organization doesn't have a lot of OGs - they're still young and staying below the radar. So, the career timeline is compressed. The parallel for the union is Frank -> Avon, and Horseface -> Stringer.

If anything, Nick is more like Dee - in that Frank knows he is more competent. He wants better for Ziggy, but he secretly knows that it isn't really in him. But they're all Sobotkas - so I don't know how to line that up with Barksdale. If anything, Ziggy is more like Wallace, with elements of Dee. Nick is like a notch between Dee and Stringer.

So, it isn't perfect. There are some commonalities between family, business, competence and role - but, whereas you can work on the docks for 30+ years, one cannot expect a career in the drug game much past 30 and there is a good chance a number of those years will be incarcerated.

The really close parallels between Ziggy and Dee come in that isolation, as you suggest. Ziggy is completely out of place, but doesn't know or understand anything else.

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Yeah, it definitely isn't perfect, but there are parallels like you said. The issue is that different people have different qualities of other people. It's a mixed bag, so to speak.

But there are still similarities though. I love the theme of being born into something and not being able to get yourself out of it.

With Zig and Dee though, I feel like Dee fancied himself as better than the game. But that was flawed to a large degree, because he was so caught up in the game for so long, and had some success (running a tower) until he fricked it up for himself (shooting the guard). Once that all happened, he was able to remove himself a little bit and see that he wasn't fit for this life and he wanted out. The problem was that he thought he was too good for it, when in actuality he wasn't since most of what he had accomplished in the game was because of his family name.

Ziggy on the other hand...he isn't too good for what he has. He isn't better than being some a-hole dock worker. Sure, he has a little bit of smarts, like being comfortable and knowledgeable with electronics for example, but overall he's just a slapdick who has the Sobotka name. And he sure as hell doesn't have the drive or attitude to get anything accomplished or be successful. And when he's faced with some trouble, the first thing he does is try to get other people to handle that shite for him...and when he's out of trouble, he is right back to being the same piece of shite he always was.

There are definitely similarities between Dee and Zig, but there are also a lot of differences as well. They are both punk arse bitches though.

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-i love daniels' face after prez socks valchek

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Hilarious. As was McNulty's reaction when they filled him in on what happened.

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-bunk on a motherfrickin boat

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I love how he went from literally being terrified to set foot on a boat to kicking back and relaxing and fishing off the back of one.

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-nicky at the greeks "i don't know no spiros"

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Nicky getting a lesson in how business gets done. One day the Greeks are there, and the next day he walks in and it's like they were literally never there at all.

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of course D'Angelo wouldn't know, i meant Stringer has D taken out because he, Stringer, is fricking her and it would look bad since Avon and Breanna are pushing her to visit more if they found out, which is probably inevitable. It was just reach on my part, because I'm still truly baffled why he would do that at that point. I agree D would have been taken out over killing the guy in the tower before the show starts if he wasn't a Barksdale, but I don't think he is a big liability now. He has no new info, they couldn't use what he told Bunk and McNulty and Perlman, WeeBey copped to all those murders anyway, Avon cut a deal and can't be prosecuted, again. all he knows now the cops already know anyway(the players). He has nothing but suspicion (which the cops also have) about the hot shots, really he can't do any real harm.

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There are still lots more things Avon could be charged with. They didn't get him on some high level shite in the first place because he was so removed from things, and that's one reason he only got like 7 years to begin with. But if you don't think they could nail him for running a heroin empire then I don't know what to tell you. Stringer as well.

And Dee knows ALL about that network and how shite works. Don't forget that even though Dee gave them a little information, he wasn't spilling his guts to the cops about everything. And he sure as hell didn't implicate B&B at all. So he could've given them lots of information that could've gotten Stringer in trouble, and Avon into more trouble. And like someone said, he was slowly turning his back on his family and the game anyway, first on his mother and then on Avon in prison. And like String said, he is fricking WEAK, and once he started cracking (which he already was) it wouldn't take long for him to break. And once he broke, there's no telling what he would do. Sure, he MAY not spill everything to the cops, but he certainly could have. And you can't have a loose cannon like that running around in prison on the verge of snitching, especially considering the wealth of information that someone like Dee had.

It was the smart/right move to be made. Stringer knew it, and I think deep down Avon knew it but he couldn't make that call because he kept his faith in Dee as family despite Dee turning his back on Avon. So String made the call and did what had to be done. And like someone said earlier, I don't think it was malicious at all. It was just the objectively correct thing to do, not only to protect his own arse, but the B&B empire as a whole.

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But if you don't think they could nail him for running a heroin empire then I don't know what to tell you. Stringer as well.

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come on man, you know that's not what I'm saying. the cops already know Avon and Stringer run the drugs on the west side and in those projects, (they had an org chart if you recall on the chalk board) they just can't prove it. And i don't see where D can offer any proof at this point.

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And Dee knows ALL about that network and how shite works

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Does he? They have a new connect, the moved to the funeral polar (does he any of know that?). He knows who's in charge and the remaining soldiers like Bodie and Poot which the cops already know anyway.

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So he could've given them lots of information that could've gotten Stringer in trouble

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I'm not so sure about like. Like what does he have on Stringer that the cops could prove? I mean they had a bug in the office and couldn't get him. If he said Stringer order the murders, WeeBey could deny it so there's your reasonable doubt.

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like String said, he is fricking WEAK, and once he started cracking (which he already was) it wouldn't take long for him to break. And once he broke, there's no telling what he would do

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not much which I'm sure Levy could point out. Levy could torpedo him easy (D is no Omar) for making stuff up to cut a deal and because he is in jail, what can offer as tangible proof of anything, maybe he could agree to try and get someone to say something incriminating while visiting him or something but that's about it and if he did turn, then maybe Avon would go along with Stringer at that point long before he got to court.

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It was the smart/right move to be made. Stringer knew it, and I think deep down Avon knew it but he couldn't make that call because he kept his faith in Dee as family despite Dee turning his back on Avon

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it would have been smart after he killed the guy in the tower and again after he got picked up in NJ (Avon also feels guilty over that) now, i see the risks (Avon finding out and getting someone to take out Stringer) as far greater than the reward.