re: OFFICIAL "The Wire" M/TV Board rewatch thread (current discussion starts ~p. 53)

quote:

---

frank sobotka is the central character in a greek motherfricking tragedy

---

Literally. You go from not knowing what to make out of the guy, to wavering between liking him and not liking him. You see the train wreck coming and wonder how a savvy guy like Frank got caught the way he did.

quote:

---

"Boris...why always Boris?"

---

"Did he have hands? Did he have a face? Yes?... then it wasn't us." *hangs up* "Idiot."


ETA: Chris Ashworth is from Virginia. He does not speak Russian or Ukrainian. He has never been to Russia or the Ukraine. He is just good with dialects and accents. I studied Russian for the army - he was convincing to me as a slav - just across the board.

Will get to other posts, but wanted to get my thoughts in on these two episodes and S2 as a whole.


Bad Dreams

Valchek hasn't done shite, but now that it's time to arrest Frank, he wants to be front and center to do it. And wants the media there so everybody will know that he's the one who did it. What a prick.

Great scene with Frank and Ziggy in jail. And they both know Zig is fricked. Hilarious that he's been in jail less than a day and has already gotten his arse kicked several times it looks like.

It's always funny to me how on this show they sure as hell never seem to care about following a suspect too closely. I mean, these are high-level criminals. if Avon can smell out a tail, then these Greeks surely can too. And they did. Might want to stay more than 20 feet back next time, Kima, frick.

It sucks that Frank did all that work for nothing. He's not the most trustworthy guy, but ultimately I feel like he has at least decent intentions. And all the handshaking and greasing palms ended up doing nothing. Sucks.

I wonder why Omar a) didn't use his shotgun, and b) shot Brother in the stomach. Seems like Omar wouldn't really want to shoot to not kill in that situation.

Frank: "I knew I was wrong. But in my head I thought I was wrong for the right reasons." Yup, that just about sums it up.

The Greeks are partying it up and having dinner like there is nothing going down at all.

Man, you can see this shite for Frank coming a fricking mile away bigger than shite. Damn. And he had it in the bag until he freaked out and went to the police. The Greek was on his side and was willing to talk to him and help him out (and Ziggy/Nicky). But Frank had to be stubborn and stick to his twisted version of a moral code and it ended up costing him his neck. So tragic.


Port in a Storm

I wonder why they left his face and hands. Was it to send a message maybe??

Look at Santangelo directing traffic.

Daniels going to bat for Prez with Valchek. And it actually worked. I was surprised we didn't see some semblance of that in the final montage though.

So did Sobotka have a face and his hands because Sergei was in jail? The way he was talking on the phone that day made it seem like that was a Greeks thing and not a Sergei thing. But who knows.

The Greek: "And of course, I'm not even Greek." That's awesome.

Damn, Nick was gonna get got but flipped over to the cops.

So I guess Frank knew what could happen and that's why he wanted Nick to not go with him to Key Bridge? Would make sense, although Frank knew that Nick was in good with them though...shite, Vondas was trying to pull strings for Nick with the Greek even.

It sure seemed to take a while for Fitzhugh to figure out that the mole was inside his circle (the San Diego office he'd always call). But I guess that's pretty normal for the FBI to deal with other agents throughout the country without ever having seen or met them. Seems like it would be pretty easy to get an undercover in there somewhere if you were on the criminal side of things.

Herc and Carv are the red headed stepchildren.

Avon: "String, this ain't about your motherfricking business class. It's the other part of it." Avon schooling Stringer about the game from prison. In the past we've seen where Stringer has a good head for the business side of things, as well as enough street to make decisions that need to be made. But he's still missing some of the streetwise that is needed in this business. That's why B&B is such a good partnership, because they play off each other. But String finally got what he wanted...Avon's okay to deal with Prop Joe to get some decent product back in the west side. "You run it how you see fit, until I get out."

I was surprised to see Sergei start talking to the cops, even with his voice on the recording. I figured he would've kept his cool and not said shite.

As always, awesome montage to end the season. And Rawls finally gets his Jane Does cleared. :lol:



Season Two

I really enjoyed S2 this time around. And I liked it the first time I watched it, but this time I paid more attention to certain things. For one, the cops and the bureaucratic bullshite is off the charts. But I forgot how much B&B and the drug trade was still involved in S2. S2 would be a pretty great standalone one-season show IMO.

quote:

---

Slim Charles

---

One of my favorite characters of the whole series.

One thing I am catching this time around is when certain characters show up. Like I don't remember Brother Mouzone being this early in the series. Same with people like Clay Davis and shite like that.

It's cool seeing just how early and involved some people are this time around. The first time I watched the show, I watched S1 and then it took forever to watch S2. And then I had another really long break between then and S3 (although once I started S3 I ran through the rest of the series fairly quickly). So I wasn't watching it on the reg, so I missed/didn't remember a lot of people/things.

quote:

---

I really enjoyed S2 this time around. And I liked it the first time I watched it, but this time I paid more attention to certain things. For one, the cops and the bureaucratic bullshite is off the charts. But I forgot how much B&B and the drug trade was still involved in S2.

---

I could have written this exact sentence. For me I binged watched S2 the first go round, i think sticking with 2 Episodes a week and watching out for details really helped. I tried to catch the little things: like when Daniels had decided to take Burrell's offer and was trying to figure out how to tell his wife, he's watching a dog show on TV and the announcers are talking about the obedience of whatever breed of dog it was, that scene was cut with Kima having similar issues.

Another was Frank and the Union guys watching the video of the robotics on the Rotterdam dock in horror, then it cuts to Herc and Carver listening in on their bug in the tennis ball and Herc says isn't technology great and it cuts back to Frank. Just brilliant.

quote:

---

I don't know why S2 catches such crap

---

Does it? I think you have some, which sounds like you me and Coco are all in the same boat. I liked, just not as much as S1, 3 or 4. But S2 does seem to have "fanboys" for lack of a better term, that think it is the best season.

I think bingeing it the firs time i missed some stuff and it is easy to focus on the docks and not realize how much of the Barksdale storyline there was in S2. I knew Brother Mazone was in S2, but didn't remember Bunny Colvin showing up. I also didn't remember Butchie before S3 and never would have noticed he was the supplier for the prison guard.

For me the other thing was i felt like Simon was beating us over the head with his message and maybe in part (or in whole) because i disagree with him it turned me off a little, but like i said, I still like it the first time, but definitely liked it more the 2nd watch.

quote:

---

I have always chalked that up to the jarring shift from a focus on West Baltimore to the early development of the dock characters. But, on repeated viewings, there are some great things going during Season 2

---

The shift didn't bother me, i thought the set up being over a stained glass window was a bit much at first, trying too hard to put the band back together and get the message across were my "issues" with Season 2, but i still really liked it.

quote:

---

Season 5

---

last of the 5 seasons for me by a good margin. i am hoping this thread makes it there because i do want to give it a 2nd viewing a discuss.

quote:

---

Gus

---

He also directs some episodes correct?

quote:

---

He also directs some episodes correct?

---

Clark Johnson played Gus and, yes, he directed the pilot and series finale of The Wire, as well as 2 other first season episodes, and the pilot and finale of The Shield, on a semi-related note. This puts him in the running for GOAT television director - at least for me - even if he did nothing else, ever, in the way of television directing.

Simon became familiar with him during Homicide (full disclosure, I never watched Homicide). He played Detective Lewis and began directing during the fifth season of that show. He is great for this kind of show, as he was an actor first and these shows rely heavily on actor ability and character interaction.

quote:

---

Valchek hasn't done shite, but now that it's time to arrest Frank, he wants to be front and center to do it. And wants the media there so everybody will know that he's the one who did it. What a prick.

---

since you covered what i was going to say, I'll just comment on your rundown.

God I hate Valchek, what a dick. He's the worst of the cops with the political BS. While Rawls is bad, at least on some level i think appreciates good police work. I could not see Valchek consoling someone like Rawls did with Jimmy after Kima was shot. Valchek has the little man syndrome, he's a bully and to think it all started over a window smh. And like Frank said when he came down yelling and threatening him over the window, "you could have just asked". What sucks is, though his motivation was terrible, he turned out to be right, Frank was dirty. I did like when he gets the picture of the van from Australia he seemed almost remorseful that Frank was dead and had a little respect for him since Frank got him good and says rest in peace in Polish (if the interwebs can be believed).

As a side note, I noticed David Simon was one of the reporters waiting outside when they bring Frank out.

quote:

---

It's always funny to me how on this show they sure as hell never seem to care about following a suspect too closely. I mean, these are high-level criminals. if Avon can smell out a tail, then these Greeks surely can too. And they did. Might want to stay more than 20 feet back next time, Kima, frick.

---

I thought it was Beadie that blew it? Vondros stopped at the corner outside the parking garage and then hesitated after getting out of the elevator. He knew he was being followed. I did love the Greek walking past Kima when she was leaving the garage.

quote:

---

Man, you can see this shite for Frank coming a fricking mile away bigger than shite. Damn. And he had it in the bag until he freaked out and went to the police. The Greek was on his side and was willing to talk to him and help him out (and Ziggy/Nicky). But Frank had to be stubborn and stick to his twisted version of a moral code and it ended up costing him his neck. So tragic.

---

Yeah, that's the "Greek Tragedy" part, but I'm not sure i totally agree he had it in the bag. He was pretty much fricked if he didn't flip. They didn't know it at the time, but the Greeks couldn't do anything for Ziggy, they would have eventually found that out and would they have still viewed Frank as solid? I think he freaked over guilt and the faint (pointless it turned out) chance to help Ziggy. Had he consulted a lawyer he would have been much better off and probably saved the Union, you know he'd tell them to vote for new leaders and turn their back on him to avoid decertification, gotten the charges dropped against Nick, protection for himself and at least better accommodations for Ziggy.

quote:

---

I wonder why they left his face and hands. Was it to send a message maybe??

---

I figure it was because they killed him at the last minute in the wide open in broad daylight. Cutting off heads and hands is messy and time consuming, plus they may not have had anything beyond pocket knives?

quote:

---

Daniels going to bat for Prez with Valchek. And it actually worked.

---

and he's playing Valchek's game. Maybe i could get my people to flip if for you but not the Feds, you know how they are

quote:

---

Damn, Nick was gonna get got but flipped over to the cops.

---

Also Fitz, is about to send a fax and stops at the last minute to check. But after he tells Daniels we are left wondering if Kostis is just on their payroll or do they give him info on terrorism that he can use?

quote:

---

Avon: "String, this ain't about your motherfricking business class. It's the other part of it." Avon schooling Stringer about the game from prison. In the past we've seen where Stringer has a good head for the business side of things, as well as enough street to make decisions that need to be made. But he's still missing some of the streetwise that is needed in this business.

---

in this situation, Stringer is right. They got no product worth a shite and no muscle. He with Brother, he ain't working for free, at some point are you in business or just trying to be a badass (more on this in season 3 I realize.

quote:

---

I wonder why Omar a) didn't use his shotgun, and b) shot Brother in the stomach. Seems like Omar wouldn't really want to shoot to not kill in that situation

---

That was odd, though maybe he wanted a little pain for Brandon. One other thing, in the last Ep when he's talking to Butchie, Butch says Avon's dad was pur evil, Avon and Stringer too, but didn't he help Avon with the hot shots to set up the prison guard? Was he scared of Avon or just talking that way for Omar? Butchie is a very underrated character.

quote:

---

I was surprised to see Sergei start talking to the cops, even with his voice on the recording. I figured he would've kept his cool and not said shite.

---

agree on this also, was he that scared of the death penalty or just knows it doesn't matter since he knows the Greeks are gone, untraceable?

quote:

---

And Rawls finally gets his Jane Does cleared

---

But Daniels lets him stew for a couple of days.

Love when Beadie and Bunk are in in Philly asking the security guy about who was working and he's totally clueless, but as they are about to leave he says. Maybe you'd like to look at the videos Ya think?

quote:

---

Does it? I think you have some, which sounds like you me and Coco are all in the same boat. I liked, just not as much as S1, 3 or 4. But S2 does seem to have "fanboys" for lack of a better term, that think it is the best season.

---

It does a little. And if it doesn't a little, then it should. It's just not as watchable as the others. They take a storyline that should be a subplot and make it the main feature for a seaosn. If it gets ranked as the 4th best season, then imho it gets ranked appropriately.

And I think it's a close call between 2 and 5.

quote:

---

Heroin addicts aren't generally holding down good jobs.

---

You'd be surprised.

quote:

---

$200 a day seems unsustainable for your common heroin addicts.

---

Obviously, they don't start out that way. They beg, borrow and steal for the money. They sell everything they own. Bubs kind of lays it down in Season 1 when he was coaching Carver. And resources are obviously limiting factors. Keith Richards, for example, can get pharmaceutical grade heroin shipped to him anywhere on Earth. A street junkie like Bubbles just has to get by any way he can.

OP is updated with new episode assignments for this week.

I will try to respond to things on this last week today, and then get my thoughts on the first two episodes of S3 as well. Lot going on in S3 already, just two episodes in.