re: Official "Inception" Thread (***SPOILERS***)

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I think you're missing the pint. If she was right, killing herself (however many times it took), would have ultimately awoken her while Cobb was still asleep.

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But her mind had been corrupted. If she was right, and after jumping off the ledge she awoke in another dream, then she would have done it again, and again, and again, until she actually died.

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She could conceivably be reattaching to the machine and reentering his dream to attempt to talk him out of his dream state. This premise suggests that all of the other levels and connecting in dreams with his team are all just part of his dream.

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Right, but we know that even if you're in a dream, to enter a deeper dream with someone else, you need to be connected to the dream machine.

If the level Mal jumped to her death is, let's say, level 1, then Mal wakes up by dying (I argue above that she would keep trying to kill herself given the idea that has taken hold of her mind, but let's say she doesn't). Let's say she re-enters level 1 to bring Dom back.

We see Dom in the beginning and in the end hook up to the dream machine with others (Nash, Arthur, Saito in the beginning, Arthur, Eames, Saito, Ariadne, and Fisher in the end) to enter further dreams with these members. So, he is essentially entering dreams within the dream he is still in. Meaning, in the beginning, Saito's fortress is actually level 3 for him, and the snow compound at the end is actually level 4.

Yet, we don't see Mal connect to the dream machine in any of these levels...we only see her appear suddenly in Saito's fortress, and again at the snow compound.

After entering level 1 again to bring Dom back, she would have had to connect to the dream machine, along with everyone else, to enter those deeper dreams.

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But her mind had been corrupted. If she was right, and after jumping off the ledge she awoke in another dream, then she would have done it again, and again, and again, until she actually died.

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If she was right, she would now be awake. Only if Cobb was right, and he accidentally incepted her, would she actually kill herself.

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We see Dom in the beginning and in the end hook up to the dream machine with others (Nash, Arthur, Saito in the beginning, Arthur, Eames, Saito, Ariadne, and Fisher in the end) to enter further dreams with these members. So, he is essentially entering dreams within the dream he is still in. Meaning, in the beginning, Saito's fortress is actually level 3 for him, and the snow compound at the end is actually level 4.

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Actually, if Mal was correct, then Cobb is still on the same level where she left him. He thinks he is on different levels at times, but Arthur and the others are actually only projections and he is only dreaming that he is going into dreams with them.

Really, the most convincing evidence against the idea that Mal is awake and entering Cobb's dream to talk him out is the fact that she never shows up in his perceived reality. If it is all a dream, one would think that she would show up when he thinks he's awake.

Cs, you have done a really good job at presenting your belief (arguably the best of anyone in this thread IMO). You, however, really suck at discussing other ideas because you don't seem to be able to lose the assumption that everything you believe is absolute fact.

Just because someone mentions an idea that does not mesh with yours, it isn't an attack on your idea. Most of us are just enjoying the process of fleshing out different ideas. Hell, I don't even believe the theory that I've presented, it was just a possible scenario that had not really been discussed. The ideas that I actually believe have been discussed to death, so I didn't want to restate them.

I'm trying to rate the acting performances of this movie.

I've got Leo number one. This role is incredibly challenging.

I think Hardy gets my number two spot, followed by Ellen Paige and Cillian Murphy.

Marion Cotilliard was great in most scenes. I have to say, I don't understand the accent she went with. Shouldn't it have been purer English like her father? Or was it an english/french blend?

JGL is one of my favorites, but I think he was overshadowed here. Solid performance, but nothing too earth shattering.

Watanabe's deliberate mannerisms pissed me off. He's last on my list.

This thread is prolly one of the best in depth discussions of a movie I have been involved with. It does kind of disappoint me though, that there are posters in the thread that are staunchly guarding their opinion and theory about all aspects of the film, without truly being open to other interpritations. When it comes down to it, the movie is shot in such a way that there is no real definitive answer to some of the questions. I think the cases for both reality and dream have been presented very well. We can argue endlessly about shots and edits and all that. Until Nolan sits down and breaks it all down definitively, the strongest impact of the film is causing the arguments over plot. If more studios would make these kinds of films, we would all be better off.

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Actually, if Mal was correct, then Cobb is still on the same level where she left him. He thinks he is on different levels at times, but Arthur and the others are actually only projections and he is only dreaming that he is going into dreams with them.

Really, the most convincing evidence against the idea that Mal is awake and entering Cobb's dream to talk him out is the fact that she never shows up in his perceived reality. If it is all a dream, one would think that she would show up when he thinks he's awake.

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I hate to dispute my own post, but I will anyway. If it were all a dream, perhaps when Cobb perceives the presence of Mal, he subconsciously projects that he is going into a dream with someone so that her presence there "fits" his perception of reality. A sort of defense mechanism.

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The only real counter I can think of to this theory is that near the end of the film, in limbo (or what we think is limbo), we have Dom confronting Mal.

According to this theory, Mal would be real, and not a mere projection as the film presents. She presumably enters to "rescue" Dom.

Yet, when Mal discovers what Dom did, she begins crying, and is seemingly upset at how Dom manipulated her. If she were actually in reality, and were attempting to rescue Dom from this dream, it can be argued that it would be unlikely for her to act in such a manner. Because if she was already in reality, and already "rescued", why would she be upset at Dom for actually saving her?

But this theory really gets wobbly when Mal says to Dom, as tears run down her face, "But you can still make amends. We can still be together, here, in the world we built together."

This line by Mal directly contradicts,

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She could conceivably be reattaching to the machine and reentering his dream to attempt to talk him out of his dream state

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Until Nolan sits down and breaks it all down definitively,

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Unfortunately, I strongly doubt this would ever happen.

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But this theory really gets wobbly when Mal says to Dom, as tears run down her face, "But you can still make amends. We can still be together, here, in the world we built together."

This line by Mal directly contradicts,

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Only if the argument is that she is always real and never a projection.

As I said earlier, each theory could have many subtheories and variances. If the argument is that the entire movie is a dream (again, not my theory), anything is possible, since the rules we know are part of the dream. This is the reason this is my least favorite of the 3 major theories. Not saying it is least likely, just leaves me least satisfied.

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I just watched this. After watching this great great movie and reading some of the theories here, my head might explode.

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I finally went and watched it. First movie that I was able to convince myself to go see this summer, or this year for that matter, and it didn't disappoint.

I just enjoyed following along during the heist as the different layers of the dream wove together. I really liked watching Joseph Gordon-Levitt adapt to the shifts in gravity induced by the van. Tom Hardy put on a hell of a performance as well.

I'm not sure where I fall on the dream vs. reality argument. I think I need another viewing before I side with either camp. I was watching that totem intently just before the screen went blank to get a definitive answer, but I should have known that Nolan wouldn't make it that easy on me...