re: Official Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part II Reaction Thread

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And obviously, there is that danger of lying to Voldermort, but I would guess that her line of thinking was "if HP survived THAT, the Dark Lord is going down anyways".

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I don't remember that explanation in the book - was it there?

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Draco was held captive by the fact that if he didn't do what he was ordered to do and toe the Death Eater line, his family would die. I called this before the last book came out: the Malfoy's are going to get to the point to where they realize that following Voldermort isn't worth it anymore. It's destroying their family, and at the end of Deathly Hallows, that's all they cared about.

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what changed tho? his father narrowly avoided Azkaban before the series started right? How could there have been any illusions about the path they were going down?

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Draco was a problem too



Draco was never a killer. This was evident when Voldemort tasked him with killing Dumbledore. Voldemort resented the Malfoy's after they deserted him when he fell from power, and that was the last insult. He knew he wouldn't kill him, and it would be a slap in the face to the Malfoy name.

After that, Draco resented Voldemort. He was having a kind of internal battle. When it came down to it, he wanted to be able to help Voldemort, but he just couldn't. He lied to Bellatrix at Malfoy Manor, and even when he hunted Harry down at the castle he couldn't pull the trigger.

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You touch on a couple points that people probably remember - but did the character work for you?

Esp in light of how he grew up (with his father the deatheater) - did it make sense?

My answer is no

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I don't remember that explanation in the book - was it there?

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Just my thinking, but like I said, at that point, they didn't care.

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what changed tho? his father narrowly avoided Azkaban before the series started right? How could there have been any illusions about the path they were going down?

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He went to Azkaban. Was broken out at the beginning of Deathly Hallows. And at that point, they were stuck. Another thing omitted from the movie was Lucius pleading to go to the castle and bringing HP to Voldermort, but he saw that all he cared about was finding Draco. I think Voldermort said that if Draco had changed sides, it was an unfortunate choice and he would get what was coming to him. That was the last straw. Plus, the Malfoy's were constantly under the influence of Bellatrix, who was all about the Dark Lord.

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and yet near the end when they could have either taken up arms to try and take down V - or stuck with him and stayed in his good graces... they did neither

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They're a family full of cowards who just latch onto power. That's why they follow Voldemort in the first war, its why they don't stick by him when he falls, and why they go running back at the end of GoF.

Lots of the Death Eaters are like that. It's why they all bounce after they realize Harry is still alive.

All in all I thought the Malfoys were good characters, and I thought the movies nailed the Draco character pretty good. In the books and the movies I get the sense that Draco sees that he's not going to meet a happy end in the Voldemort camp, but that he feels its far too late to try to redeem himself.


ETA: Off topic of the current discussion, but I've always felt that Harry should have died.

I guess I was just disappointed in the Malfoys and esp Draco. Early on in the series Draco is presented as a sort of minor foil for Harry - and never really seemed to be developed past that point.

We have multiple generations of heros and "villains" in teh series (vold/dumb, snape/harry's parents, harry/draco)- obviously snape is revealed not to be a villain... but isn't it striking how shallow the draco character was compared to the others? it wouldn't have taken much to change that either IMO - just a line or two by inference would have done a lot.

I just love more believable and strong villains. When you have a young character introduced as just a bully you hope that he will be developed and the reasons for his behavior fleshed out in a more satisfying way.

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I'm not sure I have the interest to go back and read through the books to see what was different... but one thing from the movie that didn't really work for me was the Malfoy family as a group.

It seemed to me their characters rather bounced all over the place - in the spur of the moment certainly people can do irrational things but I think I've missed how their actions as a whole really make sense

Maybe the easiest demonstration of this is the mother (it was Draco's mother who falsely claimed HP was dead wasn't it?) in the last movie. What exactly is her motivation there? Certainly Volde will discover that HP lives in short order... but she and the rest of her family are apparently not changing sides to turn on him... so exactly how does this make sense? Betray Volde by lying about HP being dead - but make no attempt to take him down when the fighting starts? At that point it seems to me you are pretty high on V's list of people who will be killed

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The Malfoys were treated like absolute dogshit under Voldemort's regime once he found out that Lucius had accidentally destroyed the diary and failed to retrieve the prophesy. They thought their only ticket out was delivering Harry to the Dark Lord, and this battle would not allow for it. They likely also came to the conclusion that it was merely a matter of time before Voldemort snapped and killed them all. Once the final novel and film hits, all 3 know they're way in over their head and are looking for anyway out possible before he murders them or keeps them as his eternal slaves.

Narcissa knows that Harry is alive and that if the killing curse didn't kill Harry, he's likely going to be the one to kill Voldemort. They also know that they won't be able to enter the castle to get Draco unless they are part of the conquered army, since neither Narcissa or Lucius have wands and are of no use to Voldemort. Finally it provides a way for them to weasel their way out of Azkaban if Harry kills Voldemort. So without wands, what else were they supposed to do if they wanted him overthrown aside from lying to him. Yes if it backfired, the whole Malfoy family would be very high on Voldemort's kill list, but they were already one slight frickup away from being killed anyway, which all 3 knew was a matter of time, especially once Voldemort would have found out that Draco failed to keep Harry from destroying the Diadem.

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Draco was a problem too - making him a coward as well as a bully was plausible... but not convincingly done. I just feel like his character was botched. Shouldn't he have some steel in there somewhere? He has to know he's got little to lose at some point. And this is a guy who saw his dad go through a lot (as a deatheater). It seems probable that he might have even suffered some abuse from people (including his father) at times and that abuse could easily have given rise to cruelty, rage, and bullying - but probably not the soft character we saw in the films

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Aside from maybe Luna and Hagrid, I have to say that Draco was probably the most well adapted character from novel to film. I highly doubt that Draco was abused by his parents, aside from being heavily spoiled in his youth and being indoctrinated to his father's views. He was in completely over his head with Satan threatening to murder him and his family daily and scared completely shitless. But Draco is not a murderer and does not have the instinct to kill others, despite what he might say. Draco is a character who can't walk the talk so to speak and it is against his very nature to mame and kill.

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You touch on a couple points that people probably remember - but did the character work for you?

Esp in light of how he grew up (with his father the deatheater) - did it make sense?

My answer is no

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How doesn't it make sense? He was an insecure bully who was indoctrinated into his parents beliefs. Draco was pretty much forced to join the Death Eaters due to his father's frickups so that they could enter the castle. While Draco was confident at first, he quickly realized that he was not up for the task of being a Death Eater and was extremely frightened for the rest of the series of Voldemort, and wanted out.

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and yet near the end when they could have either taken up arms to try and take down V - or stuck with him and stayed in his good graces... they did neither

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None of the three of them had wands. How were they supposed to do this? Lying to Voldemort and ensuring Harry's continued survival was the best way to do this.

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He was an insecure bully

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insecure bully is not a character description - it is a judgment of external behavior

I wanted a character developed... doesn't seem too much to ask for in a minor foil for the series major character

They liked his ideals, and probably still did after all was said and done, but when it meant tearing their family apart, they had enough of it. They thought they were loyal enough to avoid Voldermort's wrath, but they soon discovered that none of that mattered. Voldermort would turn on anyone just to suit himself. They knew he was cruel, but they never expected they would receive that cruelty as well.