re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)

What's there to process? You believe the mysterius fat frick on a respirator not only framed Steven Avery, but also the West Memphis Three.


The motherfricker probably set OJ up too

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The motherfricker probably set OJ up too

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OJ definitely did it.

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OJ definitely did it.

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Well at least we can agree on that.

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To a point. He wasn't unlawfully arrested and he was going to jail anyway. If the state was really vindictive, it could pursue even harsher penalties and lock him away for the full 10 or more. Those options were available to them, outside of the murder charges. My point on that cannot be disputed or hasn't been so far.

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Are you saying that if he were exonerated of the murder, the state could successfully pursue a harsher punish for the possession charge, or that he would also be retried on the charge?

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I just find him to be an odd victim. I don't mind a new trial. It is an expensive process though and I don't see what it would prove. There would need to be a new investigation and I'm not sure who, in that state, has the resources to do it much better. Or why another county would want to do it. It would cost millions, especially now. He had really good lawyers. Perhaps they were restricted in some ways. But I just don't see another outcome happening.

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I'd be more concerned with any of this if it were conducted right the first time.

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I don't know why it would be, but maybe. The guns were not illegally obtained. It was the first thing he was charged with. It was literally a slam dunk conviction.

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It would depend on the circumstances, but I'd have to assume anything that could get him exonerated of the murder conviction would call into question the legality of any evidence related to the firearm possession. This is all an assumption that may never happen anyways.

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I do that because I'm still incredulous to the support the guy gets. How many people do you know walking around that have gone to prison 3 times? Or have 4 felonies and other arrests on their records?

I'm biased. I hate women beaters or guys that mistreat women. I have 3 sisters and grew up with a single mom. I'll never back somebody like him.

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This is misguided. I don't support Avery necessarily. I support a fair and just system that follows our Constitution.

I was almost stabbed for stepping in on a DV between my neighbors. I have a sister and mother as well. You don't have to support Avery to think this is bullshite.

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Are you saying that if he were exonerated of the murder, the state could successfully pursue a harsher punish for the possession charge, or that he would also be retried on the charge?

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No, not at all. I just pointed out that the conviction on that is totally valid and without question. I do believe they could have pursued a harsher sentence for the gun charge. But that wasn't necessary with the punishment that came with the murder conviction.

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It would depend on the circumstances, but I'd have to assume anything that could get him exonerated of the murder conviction would call into question the legality of any evidence related to the firearm possession. This is all an assumption that may never happen anyways.

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Fair enough and I really don't know. It's my understanding that each charge/conviction stands on its own. The guns don't have to be tied to the murder. When he was initially arrested, that was the charge they used. There really is no debate that he is guilty of that. So, why throw it out?

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This is misguided. I don't support Avery necessarily. I support a fair and just system that follows our Constitution.

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I do as well and I'm sure so do most people. He is just not the guy I would rally behind or pick as my poster boy for police reform.

This was the founding principals of this country...with due process, prohibition against warrantless searches, and the right to not incriminate yourself.

Sadly we have digressed as a society and prefer vindictiveness and irrational lengthy punishment that no other country does.

I only hope this documentary opens the eyes to people how bad our system is and that the principles of the founding fathers have long since passed.

Land of the free? Land of the jailed.

Does America really produce that much more creeps and criminals than Russia, North Korea and China combined?
Because we jail more than all combined.

China has 1.3 billion people...but only 1.65 million prisoners despite putting tons of people in prison for crimes against the State.

That places it far second behind the United States.

India has 1.2 billion people but their incarceration rate is 33 people per 100,000 people.

The US is 698 people per 100,000 people the highest in the world and the total highest even when you combine the the worst countries to the list (China, Russia, India.)

America is the champion of the world in putting people in prison.

There's something going wrong here. Hopefully this doc spikes some reform, in reducing the phone book laws we have in making everything illegal and reforming prosecutions.

Are we truly the worst people on the planet? I don't think so...it's our system and constant creation of more laws to get elected...and prison mentality from the general public. Be tough on crime, get elected.

We have created a dystopia and people are okay with it because TV says they're bad...

Like I said earlier, our sentencing for minor misdemeanors far exceeds any other country.

This case isn't just about Avery's guilt - it is an expose on our broken system that most people don't pay attention to.

And it's a felony prison system designed to make money and keep the payrolls going. The more people you convict, the higher you rise in your job and the more money the State gets from the Feds.

If anything I hope this doc opens eyes to how easily we - as Americans - land of the free - incarcerate people - and you could be next...even if your innocent.

America has more innocent people on death row than every country...because most have abolished it.

Except for...China, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt, Vietnam, North Korea.

We are in good company, I suppose. These are our allies in good governance and principals?

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No, not at all. I just pointed out that the conviction on that is totally valid and without question. I do believe they could have pursued a harsher sentence for the gun charge. But that wasn't necessary with the punishment that came with the murder conviction.

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I haven't seen too many people argue that the conviction on the firearm possession was not valid. My assumption would be that by the time he were hypothetically exonerated, he would have served his time for that conviction and it would be a moot point even if they had pursued a harsher sentence.

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Fair enough and I really don't know. It's my understanding that each charge/conviction stands on its own. The guns don't have to be tied to the murder. When he was initially arrested, that was the charge they used. There really is no debate that he is guilty of that. So, why throw it out?

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The only chance Avery has is for a "planted evidence" defense with new information. If that were the case, there's nearly zero chance the possession conviction stands.

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I do as well and I'm sure so do most people. He is just not the guy I would rally behind or pick as my poster boy for police reform.

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I wouldn't either, but I can't decide who gets unjustly convicted, or their guilt or innocence.

1. Brendan wrote several letters in the documentary. He wrote a confession, but it was with the first lawyer's investigator. He also wrote another one to the judge recanting and asking to change lawyers. I don't even know if he knows the truth anymore..

2. It has never been established. I don't think either the garage or trailer has been ruled out completely. He could have used drop cloths or killed her in a confined space (bath tub?). He had 3 days to clean and destroyed almost all the evidence. I don't have a ton of faith in the forensic teams of rural Wisconsin and I'm sure a lot could have been missed. Especially in those pig stys.

3. He never had a chance to get rid of the car. It was on the property and people were watching. Crushing it would have not destroyed it completely. But Dassey did say that Avery planned to do just that. Crushers do require a key and operating them is very noisy. Maybe he did not have access to it or was just waiting for the right moment. He semi-buried the bones. The bullet was lodged in the concrete. The key could have been a trophy or he was saving it to move the car when he had the opportunity.

4. I answered this one above. He needed the key to move the car. To crush the car, he'd need a lift to move it (you can't drive it into the machine). I doubt it was her valet set, as most people leave those at home or give them to someone else in case we lose our first set.

5. It was obviously moved several times. He could have put it in the garage or around back. It was my understanding that she wasn't home that long. Plus lots of people live/work on that property. Maybe she didn't notice or didn't remember 4-6 days later when asked. She does have drug issues.

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I support his fricking conviction because he fricking did it

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may I ask how you support that. what evidence beyond a reasonable doubt shows that he did it?

I'm not trying to be a jerk Im really asking.

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1. Brendan wrote several letters in the documentary. He wrote a confession, but it was with the first lawyer's investigator. He also wrote another one to the judge recanting and asking to change lawyers. I don't even know if he knows the truth anymore.. 2. It has never been established. I don't think either the garage or trailer has been ruled out completely. He could have used drop cloths or killed her in a confined space (bath tub?). He had 3 days to clean and destroyed almost all the evidence. I don't have a ton of faith in the forensic teams of rural Wisconsin and I'm sure a lot could have been missed. Especially in those pig stys. 3. He never had a chance to get rid of the car. It was on the property and people were watching. Crushing it would have not destroyed it completely. But Dassey did say that Avery planned to do just that. Crushers do require a key and operating them is very noisy. Maybe he did not have access to it or was just waiting for the right moment. He semi-buried the bones. The bullet was lodged in the concrete. The key could have been a trophy or he was saving it to move the car when he had the opportunity. 4. I answered this one above. He needed the key to move the car. To crush the car, he'd need a lift to move it (you can't drive it into the machine). I doubt it was her valet set, as most people leave those at home or give them to someone else in case we lose our first set. 5. It was obviously moved several times. He could have put it in the garage or around back. It was my understanding that she wasn't home that long. Plus lots of people live/work on that property. Maybe she didn't notice or didn't remember 4-6 days later when asked. She does have drug issues.

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1. Brendan's statement are all inconsistent. What he states in those statements make no sense and not supported by any evidence.

2. The prosecution stated in its arguments that the murder didn't happen in the trailer but in the garage. Yet if what the prosecution argues is true( stabbing, throat cutting, strangulation, and multiple gun shot wounds to the head) there is NO evidence to support that. I don't know if you have ever worked a crime scene before but SOME trace evidence would be left behind. A team of full trained forensic people could not sanitize that scene in the time that Avery had, also Avery's wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, along with Brendan's IQ of 73. And search that property as much as they did, there is no excuse to miss anything.

3.From Bobby Dassey and his step dad their testimonies don't match up. Their timelines have so many holes in it I don't trust a word they said.

4. Lets talk about that key.... No one can make me believe that, that key just jumped out from behind that bookcase, after multiple searches of that trailer. And THE ONLY DNA on that key was Steven Avery's. There at a minimum would be Theresa's DNA also.

5. There was SO MUC reasonable doubt sprayed all over this case, I find it mind boggling that a jury found him guilty. and yes I know about the stuff they didn't show in the doc, but there was enough questionable things to not find him ntot guilty, and I say as someone who works in law enforcement