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Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 1/22/16 at 1:16 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Posted on 1/22/16 at 1:16 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:I completely agree with you on all points.
mizzoubuckeyeiowa
This out-of-control criminal "justice" system is something that the American people can change directly if juries will stop convicting people based on flimsy/shoddy evidence and forced confessions/statements (like in the case of Brendan Dassey). Prosecutors and law enforcement will stop doing this shite if they start getting hammered with Not Guilty verdicts.
This post was edited on 1/22/16 at 1:17 pm
0
Posted on 1/22/16 at 1:18 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Ok, her DNA then, how did it get on the bullet?
How did the lab tech get her own DNA on the bullet?
Unless she was in on it. She had to have been. Her and the fat man.
Posted on 1/22/16 at 1:27 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Unless she was in on it. She had to have been. Her and the fat man.
Posted on 1/22/16 at 1:30 pm to Kujo
quote:Well THIS is what is believed to have happened:
That's probably when his Blood sample was taken which broke the seal and punctured the sample bottle
quote:So regardless of what happened, there seems to be some carelessness in their procedures.
Manitowoc County DA E. James Fitzgerald and members of Avery’s defense team met and opened packages of evidence in the 1985 court file with the court’s approval to determine what to send out for additional tests. On June 19, 2002 at 12:25 p.m., Fitzgerald opened the box with the blood vial in it and closed it again two minutes later. It was believed the evidence tape seal was broken at that time, the court records say.
I also found this tidbit to be interesting:
quote:OK. Well that would be a pretty good counter to the only viable alternative theory the defense was allowed to present.
Marlene Kraintz would testify that she was the phlebotomist who withdrew the sample of defendant’s blood on January 2, 1996. She would testify that she was the one who put the whole (sic) in the vacutainer tube at issue."
quote:So they didn't call the nurse because they didn't think the issue was raised "significantly enough?" Then why did they work so hard to get the FBI analysis, which probably wouldn't have been near as necessary, and was scientically questionable in the first place?
Asked why Kraintz was not called to testify, then DA Ken Kratz said Wednesday, "We did not believe that the defense had raised the issue significantly enough (at trial) claiming that there was any tampering done to the blood vial. Although the documentary suggests that the hole in the vial of blood was significant, everybody at the time knew and certainly the filmmakers had to know that the hole in the vial was put there by the nurse who drew the blood."
And why wouldn't you do everything to bolster your case in a mostly circumstantial case? Something is amiss with that, not to mention this tidbit:
quote:
This matched the testimony of an FBI expert who had said the vial’s top was taken off.
This post was edited on 1/22/16 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 1/22/16 at 1:54 pm to brmark70816
of course he would but that is not the same as a murder charge come on
Posted on 1/22/16 at 2:03 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
don't have the time to get into the many reasons why I believe that he did it, but if you can give a reasonable explanation of how the bullet fragment, tied forensically to Avery's gun, ended up with Halbach's blood on it, I'll open my mind and hear your case.
1. they didn't get blood off the bullet, only DNA
2. Its not hard to get a bullet shot from his gun (they had the gun in evidence). I don't believe it to be a Coincidence that Lt. Lenk was there in the garage the day before the magic bullet was found. And found by a Manitowoc County Detective. The same Sheriffs department that was not suppose to be there. And this magic bullet was found 4 months after the search began. I have been involved with searches and when a place is searched its turned upside down. Going back once maybe twice(very rare) happens
This post was edited on 1/22/16 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 1/22/16 at 2:13 pm to 68wDoc68w
I'm still calling bullshite on being able to "forensically" tie a 22LR round to any gun after passing through two layers of skull. 22LR rounds are tiny and do not hold up well to contact with hard matter.
Posted on 1/22/16 at 2:16 pm to Jester
quote:Maybe they were able to link it to the gun because it DIDN'T pass through a skull, or any person for that matter.
I'm still calling bull shite on being able to "forensically" tie a 22LR round to any gun after passing through two layers of skull. 22LR rounds are tiny and do not hold up well to contact with hard matter.
Posted on 1/22/16 at 2:18 pm to Jester
yes it is true is much harder to forensically tie that bullet to his gun, but it can be done if the bullet still has enough to compare
Posted on 1/22/16 at 2:22 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Maybe they were able to link it to the gun because it DIDN'T pass through a skull, or any person for that matter.
Exactly
Posted on 1/22/16 at 3:57 pm to brmark70816
quote:
As someone in law enforcement, is there any way he doesn't get arrested and serve time for the gun charges? The law is black and white on this issue. How could a jury find him innocent on that?
I don't think people are saying that Avery is innocent in everything. He surely illegally possessed a firearm and deserves to be punished for that. But that doesn't mean he should get life in prison for a murder that he was never found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt for.
I sure wish I knew what was happening with the Jury and how the three guilty's got the 7 guilty's to change their mind.
Posted on 1/22/16 at 4:02 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Vols&Shaft83
We on the same page now, or at least in the same library?
Posted on 1/23/16 at 4:30 am to DisplacedBuckeye
don't make his head swell up.
Posted on 1/23/16 at 8:23 am to pioneerbasketball
quote:
pioneerbasketball
Don't make me throw a brick at you, motherfricker
Posted on 1/23/16 at 12:17 pm to RedHawk
quote:
I don't think people are saying that Avery is innocent in everything. He surely illegally possessed a firearm and deserves to be punished for that.
Thank you for that. So his arrest was lawful and he should have gone to jail. Right?
quote:
I sure wish I knew what was happening with the Jury and how the three guilty's got the 7 guilty's to change their mind.
I don't believe this is true. The only place I've heard that is on the documentary. It's not public knowledge and would only be known by the jurors. I wouldn't trust anything any of them said now. They are under incredible public scrutiny and would say anything to make themselves look better. Their verdict says it all..
Posted on 1/23/16 at 1:28 pm to brmark70816
This article believe Avery guilty but the police shady as hell...
So after all these pages, this thinking might be a compromise.
I could agree with this but what I don't agree with is the conviction.
The ends don't justify the means. Even if Avery killed her, he shouldn't be locked up...
....because the process was fricked from the start, the police are shady as hell and the County was corrupt and what protections do we all have if we allow shite like this to happen?
We should not stand for this third world method of incarcerating people. America is the world leader in just about everything, but a Banana Republic when it comes to crime.
That's the legacy of the doc, revealing to the public how - like politics (as elected officials as DA and Sheriff) - the criminal justice system can easily be controlled by those in power...and everyday in America, every hour by statistics, someone is being railroaded into the pen.
So after all these pages, this thinking might be a compromise.
quote:
Here's the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey's illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach's car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don't believe the police would plant -- or know to plant -- that evidence.
I certainly believe that there was a tremendous amount of police misconduct in this case. I believe the police helped the case against Avery along by planting evidence (and there's no doubt in my mind that they planted the RAV4 key in Avery's trailer). I also don't believe the prosecution's theory of events: There's no way Halbach was raped and had her throat slashed in the trailer without a speck of DNA evidence, and there's no way she was shot in the garage without any blood splatter evidence. After all, if Avery had somehow used bleach to erase all trace of Halbach's DNA, he would've also cleaned the garage of his own DNA (and the garage still contained lots of Avery's DNA).
I don't know how Avery murdered Halbach. I also don't believe anything that Dassey said in his coerced confession, but I also won't rule out Dassey's involvement because he would've done anything anyone asked of him.
I could agree with this but what I don't agree with is the conviction.
The ends don't justify the means. Even if Avery killed her, he shouldn't be locked up...
....because the process was fricked from the start, the police are shady as hell and the County was corrupt and what protections do we all have if we allow shite like this to happen?
We should not stand for this third world method of incarcerating people. America is the world leader in just about everything, but a Banana Republic when it comes to crime.
That's the legacy of the doc, revealing to the public how - like politics (as elected officials as DA and Sheriff) - the criminal justice system can easily be controlled by those in power...and everyday in America, every hour by statistics, someone is being railroaded into the pen.
This post was edited on 1/23/16 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 1/23/16 at 1:38 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
In Dassey's illegally obtained statement,
Illegally obtained? NO
Unethically obtained? Certainly
Posted on 1/23/16 at 1:56 pm to LesGeaux45
quote:
Vols&Shaft83
I get it, you are either a cop or just a true believer.
Someone who has never seen the horrors of our justice system or worse, is fine with it - and doesn't believe in the maxim, better 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent man imprisoned.
I think the change from that aforementioned maxim and philosophy of the founding fathers is a symptom of children growing up in a police and incarcerated state.
You are cool with it but you shouldn't be - maybe that's all you know or have ever known. This war on drugs, mass incarceration, shaddy dealings, corrupt court systems. Maybe you think this is normal and kosher. So be it.
There's no changing someone's mind who has been indoctrinated from birth that this is how America should work...lead the world in locking people.
China, we got you beat! Be proud, Vols, be so very proud.
Posted on 1/23/16 at 2:02 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
you are either a cop
Should have stopped reading right here. But I didn't. I believe Avery is guilty, and because of that, you label me as cop or a statist. Pretty pathetic really
Posted on 1/23/16 at 2:17 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Illegally obtained? NO
What makes you certain it was legally obtained?
quote:
Unethically obtained? Certainly
Agreed.
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