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re: LOST Season Finale (5-13)- The Incident

Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:08 am to
Posted by red4lsu
B'ham
Member since Jul 2004
11071 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:08 am to
It really is. And Jacob even "touched" him. Either it backfired on him or something because Jacob recognized Locke as the evil force from the opening scene.

I ETA'd this so I don't know if you saw this: Does this mean Smokey is bad too if Ben's daughter told him to do everything Locke said? My mind just exploded again.
Posted by Come2Conquer
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2004
4794 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:15 am to
quote:

Does this mean Smokey is bad too if Ben's daughter told him to do everything Locke said? My mind just exploded again.



Smokey could be a neutral force on the island that acts upon the whims of both Jacob & NonLocke.

Or, NotLocke could also be the smoke monster.
Posted by davesdawgs
Georgia - Class of '75
Member since Oct 2008
20307 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:16 am to
quote:

John Locke, the actual person (not the vessel for The Black Team), had a really, really, REALLY pathetic end to his life, didn't he.

Its kind of heartbreaking.


I really don't see it that way. Yes, it appears that John was a pawn in that evil incarnate used his body but John also made the ultimate sacrifice that allowed his friends to get back to the island which possibly prevented world destruction.
Posted by batman
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2004
699 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:24 am to
quote:

Does this mean Smokey is bad too if Ben's daughter told him to do everything Locke said? My mind just exploded again.


I think it is safe to say that Mr. "Black" = smokey. Mr. Black/Smokie obviously uses dead bodies to manifest himself...therefore taking the form of Locke when his body is returned to the island. Notice when Ben goes down to the temple that Locke isnt there when Alex shows up. Alex/smokey manipulates Ben to follow Lockes instructions ensuring the death of Jacob. Then Locke reappears.

All these "dead" people that we are seeing is Mr. Black trying to manipulate the losties in this game.
Posted by red4lsu
B'ham
Member since Jul 2004
11071 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:25 am to
Ok one question that I didn't see posed: did Jacob inherently let Nadia be struck by that car? Was that his way of getting Sayid back? Or was he preventing Sayid from getting hit? I just wonder if it would have happened had Jacob not stopped him to ask him for directions.
Posted by busbeepbeep
When will then be now?
Member since Jan 2004
19515 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:29 am to
just watched


holy
schmoly

that was intense...can't believe we have to wait a year to see more
Posted by manwich
You've wanted my
Member since Oct 2008
52835 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 12:51 am to
wow

i love this show

my thoughts:


so Jacob is the white (white shirt) and NotLocke is the black (guy on the beach in the black shirt). nice to see that coming back. is the Black NotLocke guy a type of Esau or is he a Satan character?

who are the new people? ilena seemed to know Jacob before he entered her hospital

Capt. Lapidas got to see what was in the box. he seems like an outside character. his name translates as stone, to stone someone or tombstone. i think he is sort of like a boatman character taking people across the river Styx (the island's threshold to reality)

are Christian, Walt, Claire, etc. embodiments of Jacob or the man in black?

does Sawyer kill himself because he thinks Juliet is dead? (twist on the Shakespearean name)

juliet was retarded in this episode. how many times did she flip flop her ideas about what they should do?

ash around the cabin and jacob's body being burned. what's the significance?

why would the new crew burn the cabin?

Bernard and Rose are definitely Adam and Eve skeletons living in their own paradise.

where does Charles Widmore fit in now?

what was written on the tapestry inside the foot?


oh, and

quote:

Sobek's ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part.

Jacob or Richard, i wonder


did i mention i loved this show?





This post was edited on 5/14/09 at 1:01 am
Posted by Bowe Knows
Member since Sep 2004
959 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 1:20 am to
So if the guy in Black somehow got into Lockes body as the "loophole", and Locke's body was the substitute for Christian Sheppard on 316, does that mean that Blackie got into Christian on 815? So was that him steering Locke to turn the wheel....sending him back to the mainland....to die....so he could get into his body and kill Jacob?

And since this new Locke talked Richard into going to tell time travelling, shot Locke that he had to die....that was self serving also, right?

Has there EVER been a show that made viewers think this much? Damn I love this show.

Rose and Bernard, that was awesome.

Wait a minute....their cabin. The "shadow" people said someone else had been using it. What if they meant the Blackie guy instead of Jacob. So when Locke hears the "help me" it would be this guy trying to get into a body to kill Jacob.

I need sleep....
Posted by LSU tiger bandtuba
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
129 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 1:23 am to
if you dont know and havent been watching then shut up!
Posted by yungtigr
Dallas, TX
Member since Jan 2005
3820 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 1:41 am to
I think its possible some people are overthinking the "they're coming" line from Jacob.


I would certainly expect Richard et. al. to bolt into the foot as soon as they see that the guy they've been following for two days is dead in a box.


everyone making claims about it being god/devil good/evil struggle and backgammon or w/e are probably the ones claiming purgatory and time loop and everything else that has the theory du jour over the last 5 seasons. it's more fun to just take the ride Abrams is sending us on IMHO.
Posted by LSU tiger bandtuba
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
129 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 1:50 am to
I think the monster is the guy on the beach and he needed locke to die so he could use his body to kill Jacob.


I cant wait until they sum up everything!
Posted by Foot
Member since Jan 2005
2330 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 2:02 am to
quote:

the "they're coming" line from Jacob.



So with the potential of a "reset" in the late 70's and a "they're coming" line in 2007, what if the plane still crashes but the Losties don't get on the helicopter this time and stay on the island longer than before and the wheel doesn't get turned, thus they show up as Ben and NonLocke walk out from under the foot?

ETA: This has plenty of holes but it could be worked out. Maybe........
This post was edited on 5/14/09 at 2:03 am
Posted by Iona Fan Man
Member since Jan 2006
27462 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 2:40 am to
I think I figured out the "loop hole"

If the leader of the others dies then the previous leader becomes leader. That's why Widmore wanted to Kill Ben, so that he can become leader. (Widmore became leader when Elli left to raise Faraday)

Ben kills Locke to go back to the island and become leader, but when he wakes up and sees Locke, he thinks it hasn't worked.

Now Richard said that only the leader can have audience with Jacob, that's why NonLocke tells Ben to come with him.

My guess is that only the leader can kill Jacob, so that's why nonLocke coerces Ben into Killing Jacob, thereby using the "loophole"

not sure if I've explained this well enough, but it makes sense to me...please de-bunk
Posted by elesshoe
Member since Oct 2007
4134 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 3:16 am to
This post was edited on 5/14/09 at 3:17 am
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
85102 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 5:39 am to
Man.... woke up and things are still running through my head.

Cant wait to rewatch the episode again
Posted by ligerbait
Nashville, TN
Member since Dec 2005
3125 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 5:49 am to
EPIC
Posted by manwich
You've wanted my
Member since Oct 2008
52835 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 6:33 am to
quote:

I think I figured out the "loop hole"

that does make sense to me. especially since smokie (manifested as Ben's daughter) was the one that told Ben to do whatever Locke said. he set Ben up to follow himself (as Locke) blindly later.



This post was edited on 5/14/09 at 6:37 am
Posted by MSTiger33
Member since Oct 2007
21659 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 6:48 am to
Maybe Jacob and Mr. Black were angels both cast of heaven and forced to live on earth. Jacob accepted the punishment and chooses to live his life on earth and help humanity find its path. On the other hand, Mr. Black is bitter and is trying to find a way to return to heaven. Maybe having someone who is completely loyal to Jacob kill him allows Mr. Black to be released from earth.


I have no idea. My brain is fried.
Posted by mceuph
New Orleans, LA
Member since Dec 2005
833 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 7:18 am to
Morning everyone, still thinking about it. Thanks for the great observations! Few random ideas of my own:
-One theory I've had about Richard for a while is that he came originally on the Black Rock (hence the alias Ricardo, or whatever).

-is it possible that when Ben said to Locke a few seasons ago "we're the good guys, John" he was actually telling the truth? The others are actually the "good" ones, or at least protecting the "good" Jacob.

-one question still: what's up with the voices heard in the forest? Any thoughts?

-if the others are the "good guys," then what did they want Walt for? Why was he special? What were they trying to use him for?

Posted by Come2Conquer
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2004
4794 posts
Posted on 5/14/09 at 7:23 am to
quote:

-One theory I've had about Richard for a while is that he came originally on the Black Rock (hence the alias Ricardo, or whatever).


Also, he was working on that ship model in a bottle last episode that was pretty much a to-scale replica of the Black Rock.

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