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re: House of the Dragon S1E6: “The Princess and the Queen”--Official Thread
Posted on 9/27/22 at 10:29 am to iwyLSUiwy
Posted on 9/27/22 at 10:29 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Wasn't able to watch Sunday so I watched last night. Possibly my least favorite episode of the season. It wasn't bad, but I was just hoping with the time jump, the story would progress some more. Over a decade has been covered now, 3/4 of the season is complete and the story just hasn't progressed any. People have gotten older but it is really just the same conflict that was in episode one and two. This show has to have filler, and they've done a good job with the characters, and I don't think I've ever said this before but they need more filler. Outside conflict. The crab killer was a perfect fit but they kill him off one episode after introducing him and it ended up being no real conflict. Just hey, here he is, and poof, now he's gone. Here's Harwin Strong, daddy to the queens boys, ok say goodbye to Harwin. Hell even Laena was a similiar character. Introduced in one episode and poof, she's gone. There built up no sympathy for her death and her death was actually pretty impactful in the source with Daemon showing some emotion instead of a lukewarm reaction.
So I think they had two routes to go with this and went with the speedier one.
They could have slowed things down and REALLY fleshed some things out but that would've taken up the whole season before we even make the big jump to this point. And if the development feels slow now, that would've felt REALLY slow if they did that.
Instead they went with covering as much as they could before the conflict really kicked off, to give as much background as possible.
I can see the pros/cons of both approaches. I think there was going to be some hesitancy either way.
I agree I would've liked to have seen some more of Harwin and more of Laena with Daemon as well. But then that would've slowed everything else down and I don't know how people would've liked that.
2
Posted on 9/27/22 at 10:30 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Hell even Laena was a similiar character. Introduced in one episode and poof, she's gone. There built up no sympathy for her death and her death was actually pretty impactful in the source with Daemon showing some emotion instead of a lukewarm reaction.
Bruh, the entire next episode revolves around her funeral and what happens to Vhagar judging by the preview and ep title.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 10:31 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Instead they went with covering as much as they could before the conflict really kicked off, to give as much background as possible.
It’s moreso that they are giving all the background that exists. People clamoring for filler aren’t realizing that there isn’t any. The showrunners would have to make it up, which is the exact type of thing that forced GoT to cut characters and storylines down the stretch because of the butterfly effect impact on who/what existed in the universe.
This season is the prologue for the actual story, and should be evaluated that way.
This post was edited on 9/27/22 at 10:36 am
Posted on 9/27/22 at 10:36 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Bruh, the entire next episode revolves around her funeral and what happens to Vhagar judging by the preview and ep title.
I'd have liked to see more of her relationship with Daemon as well. I get they had to move things along but I think it would've been good to show Daemon with someone he actually respected and cared for. From the history (since this has officially passed on the show):
quote:
When Prince Daemon Targaryen arrived on Driftmark in 115 AC, the singers claim he fell in love with Laena, although others believe he saw her as a means to further his ambition. He insulted Laena's betrothed until the boy challenged him to a duel, in which he was killed by Daemon with Dark Sister. Laena wed Daemon a fortnight later.[1]
Aware that the king and court would not be pleased with their marriage, Laena and Daemon flew on their dragons to Pentos, where they were hosted by the Prince of the city. From Pentos, Daemon and Laena traveled to Volantis, up the Rhoyne to Qohor and Norvos. They eventually returned to Pentos, where Laena discovered she was pregnant. Laena and Daemon remained in Pentos for the remainder of her pregnancy. In 116 AC, in Pentos, Laena gave birth to their twin daughters, Rhaena and Baela. When the children were half a year old, Laena sailed with them to Driftmark, while Daemon flew their dragons home.[1]
Laena became good friends with her good-sister, Rhaenyra Targaryen. Laena and Daemon would often visit Rhaenyra on Dragonstone, and Rhaenyra would often visit them on Driftmark. In 118 AC, Laena's two-year-old twins were betrothed to Rhaenyra's two eldest sons, with the blessing of King Viserys I.[1]
In 119 AC, Laena became pregnant again. During the first few days of 120 AC, Laena went into labor. Following a day and night of labor, she gave birth to a twisted and malformed son, who died within an hour of birth. With all her strength gone from her labor and weakened further from grief over her lost child, childbed fever set in. Neither Driftmark's maester nor Maester Gerardys from Dragonstone could heal her. After three days of sickness, Laena died. It is said that she attempted to reach Vhagar to fly one more time before she died, but collapsed on the tower steps, where she died. Daemon carried her back to bed, where he sat vigil over Laena's body together with Rhaenyra.[1]
Laena Velaryon Westeros.org Wiki (Major Spoilers)
I would have liked to see some of that play out on the screen but get it would've slowed everything else down too.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 10:43 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
So I think they had two routes to go with this and went with the speedier one.
They could have slowed things down and REALLY fleshed some things out but that would've taken up the whole season before we even make the big jump to this point. And if the development feels slow now, that would've felt REALLY slow if they did that.
Instead they went with covering as much as they could before the conflict really kicked off, to give as much background as possible.
I can see the pros/cons of both approaches. I think there was going to be some hesitancy either way.
I agree I would've liked to have seen some more of Harwin and more of Laena with Daemon as well. But then that would've slowed everything else down and I don't know how people would've liked that.
I'm fine with they way they approached it and like you, see the pros and cons of both ways.
Apart from me wanting to actually start with Aegon the Conqueror, Balerion in all his glory, Vienya and Rhaenys. The book is titled off of Visenya taking lands with Fire and Blood. But, we knew from the very first full trailer that wasn't going to be the story told so that doesnt bother me, that was just wishful thinking.
I personally like a slow burn, but I also like SOME story progression. The time jump was basically the exact same conflict, 10 years later, with a bunch more kids in the mix
I mean six episodes in and this is really the only change. I'm not comparing this to season one of Game of Thrones, which was one of the greatest seasons in history, it's not really fair to do that, but it is definitely a step down. I say all that but this is still the best show on TV right now. Posted on 9/27/22 at 10:44 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Bruh, the entire next episode revolves around her funeral and what happens to Vhagar judging by the preview and ep title.
Bruh that changes absolutely nothing in regards to what I just said.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 11:26 am to iwyLSUiwy
Guess not. Just trying to explain that this season was never going to include the type of slow burn development and progression you seem to want. This is background information—you aren’t supposed to be ‘attached’ to any of these side characters. Honestly it’s a credit to the cast and writers that people want to know more about them. But Laena and Harwin Strong are not enough important to the ultimate plot (the Dance) to waste an episode showing Daemon and Laena flying around the free cities on their dragons just so her character can be more fleshed out before dying in the Prologue.
I believe you’ll like this season more in retrospect after it ends and after subsequent seasons than you do now.
I believe you’ll like this season more in retrospect after it ends and after subsequent seasons than you do now.
This post was edited on 9/27/22 at 11:37 am
Posted on 9/27/22 at 11:41 am to Indefatigable
I mean those have been pretty much my only complaint through 6 episodes. They are doing a great job and I still think it's the best show on TV right now. But thinking very little has happened through SIX episodes of an 8 episode season is a fair complaint.
I honestly think it has been really. Characters haven't been developed, but the story hasn't progressed much. I've been waiting for something to happen, that's pretty much a slow burn.
You're probably right.
You're probably right about that too. Hopefully.
quote:
this season was never going to include the type of slow burn development and progression you seem to want.
I honestly think it has been really. Characters haven't been developed, but the story hasn't progressed much. I've been waiting for something to happen, that's pretty much a slow burn.
quote:
you aren’t supposed to be ‘attached’ to any of these people. Honestly it’s a credit to the cast and writers that people want to know more about them
You're probably right.
quote:
I believe you’ll like this season more in retrospect after it ends and after subsequent seasons than you do now.
You're probably right about that too. Hopefully.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 11:45 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
But thinking very little has happened through SIX episodes of an 8 episode season is a fair complaint.
FYI it's 10 episodes for season 1, so we are just over the half way mark.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 11:49 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
But thinking very little has happened through SIX episodes of an 8 episode season is a fair complaint.
I’m excited to see how this type of reaction to the season changes once it ends.
The lack of development criticism is valid for many characters, and as a reader I’m admittedly biased against “needing” development for characters who are already known to me.
Overall I think if the audience can make it through the next two episodes without being bored, it’ll all make more sense as to why the first few episodes of merely putting names to faces and laying players in the board was necessary. The coming conflict would be very very confusing from a name and character perspective without this “boring” exposition of who’s who and why. At least that’s what I am hoping will be borne out in retrospect.
This post was edited on 9/27/22 at 11:50 am
Posted on 9/27/22 at 11:53 am to Bronc
quote:
FYI it's 10 episodes for season 1, so we are just over the half way mark.
O nice. I guess I was thinking this and Rings of Power were eight. Hopefully they don't lower the number of episodes towards the end like GoT did.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 11:59 am to Indefatigable
quote:
The lack of development criticism is valid for many characters, and as a reader I’m admittedly biased against “needing” development for characters who are already known to me.
I've read it as well. But the book was also pretty boring as well
As far as GRRM goes at least. That's part of the reason I was hoping it actually started with Aegon so you could see the conquering other kingdoms, building of kings landing, dragon wrecking things and why the book was actually named Fire and Blood. The beginning of the book was by far the most interesting part to me. But that's why I said that the sow actually needed more filler. Which is something I never really say, especially when in regards to an author I really like. Either way, next week looks like it is going to be legit.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 12:01 pm to Indefatigable
I dont understand the bored complaints? Like at all.
This has been almost on par with season 8 with how much shite happens in a given episode IMO.
Episode 1 saw the brutal death of Viserys wife and firstborn, the joust, Daemon's bloody rampage, and Rhayneara being chosen over Daemon.
Episode 2 sees Viserys choose Alicent over the Valerian's proposal and almost set off a civil war with Daemon
Episode 3 has the great hunt, Rheanyra cementing her inheritance, and a massive battle that sees Daemon earn legitimacy by retaking the stepstones from the crabfeeder
Episode 4 is perhaps the slowest burn, but lays the foundation for the fracturing we see between Alicent and is hugely consequential in terms of character setting.
Episode 5 has the Green Wedding, nuff said
Episode 6 Sees a 10 year jump, Alicent becoming engulfed in paranoia and ruling in all but title, Rhaeynra's children, her baby daddy's murder at the hand of his brother, and Daemon's wife's death.
Thats more shite in 6 episodes than I think I have seen in some entire seasons of most shows. And we are only barely over half way.
This has been almost on par with season 8 with how much shite happens in a given episode IMO.
Episode 1 saw the brutal death of Viserys wife and firstborn, the joust, Daemon's bloody rampage, and Rhayneara being chosen over Daemon.
Episode 2 sees Viserys choose Alicent over the Valerian's proposal and almost set off a civil war with Daemon
Episode 3 has the great hunt, Rheanyra cementing her inheritance, and a massive battle that sees Daemon earn legitimacy by retaking the stepstones from the crabfeeder
Episode 4 is perhaps the slowest burn, but lays the foundation for the fracturing we see between Alicent and is hugely consequential in terms of character setting.
Episode 5 has the Green Wedding, nuff said
Episode 6 Sees a 10 year jump, Alicent becoming engulfed in paranoia and ruling in all but title, Rhaeynra's children, her baby daddy's murder at the hand of his brother, and Daemon's wife's death.
Thats more shite in 6 episodes than I think I have seen in some entire seasons of most shows. And we are only barely over half way.
This post was edited on 9/27/22 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 9/27/22 at 12:04 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Well frick then I’m sorry for talking to you like a Hodor.
Part of me cannot believe this wasn’t the first spin off. I hope we get to see it one day.
I’m pretty meh in the rumored Jon Snow spinoff and was ice cold on the originally planned Long Night spinoff.
GRRM and HBO have tons to work with what’s been published in F&B and the various novellas that I just don’t see the need to go outside of what’s there.
then I’m sorry for talking to you like a Hodor. quote:
That's part of the reason I was hoping it actually started with Aegon so you could see the conquering other kingdoms, building of kings landing, dragon wrecking things and why the book was actually named Fire and Blood.
Part of me cannot believe this wasn’t the first spin off. I hope we get to see it one day.
I’m pretty meh in the rumored Jon Snow spinoff and was ice cold on the originally planned Long Night spinoff.
GRRM and HBO have tons to work with what’s been published in F&B and the various novellas that I just don’t see the need to go outside of what’s there.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 12:15 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
That's part of the reason I was hoping it actually started with Aegon so you could see the conquering other kingdoms, building of kings landing, dragon wrecking things and why the book was actually named Fire and Blood.
Part of me cannot believe this wasn’t the first spin off. I hope we get to see it one day.
I don't know if it would be all that interesting. Aegon conquered all but Dorne extremely easily. The building of Kings Landing happened over years and years haphazardly. There was no plan or anything until the last few years when Aegon decided to make a master plan. Then, Maegor took over and made all the secret tunnels.
The various battles with Dorne may be interesting. I also think the Blackfyre rebellion would be great, but it would probably feel like the same story as Dance for most. So, they really had to pick one or the other.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 12:25 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
I’m pretty meh in the rumored Jon Snow spinoff and was ice cold on the originally planned Long Night spinoff.
Long Night could have been interesting, but clearly whatever they came up with sucked
Jon Snow spinoff I want no part of. I know the GOT bulls are already stating how people were wrong about House and therefore will be on Jon Snow, but I'm sure the Snow show will do numbers, but creating something so you can basically try and retcon another series is a poor reaosn to do something.
And frankly, Kit Harrington was not a great Jon Snow and increasingly was a weak link on the show. Still think he and Richard Madden should have had role swaps. I dont really care about seeing Jon Snow cry about Dany and go on lower stakes adventures in the North.
House of The Dragon, Dunk and Egg, Blackfyre Rebellion, maybe Century of Blood if you are feeling bold, then go ahead and maybe reboot GoT in 10 years after GRRM finally finishes Winds of Winter.
This post was edited on 9/27/22 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 9/27/22 at 12:35 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
This season is the prologue for the actual story, and should be evaluated that way.
Yeah, this is exactly how it should be looked at. They are just feeding the viewer background info so far, so that the viewer understands why and how the future conflict occurs. It makes sense that there is confusion, because unless you know background info, you might not even be 100% certain who the future conflict is going to involve.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 12:42 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Apart from me wanting to actually start with Aegon the Conqueror
When they first announced I was hoping they would cover that in this series too.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 12:56 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
I don't know if it would be all that interesting. Aegon conquered all but Dorne extremely easily. The building of Kings Landing happened over years and years haphazardly. There was no plan or anything until the last few years when Aegon decided to make a master plan. Then, Maegor took over and made all the secret tunnels. The various battles with Dorne may be interesting. I also think the Blackfyre rebellion would be great, but it would probably feel like the same story as Dance for most. So, they really had to pick one or the other.
Fair points. I do agree that there can probably only be one show out of the the Dance and the Blackfyre Rebellions.
I would still like to see maybe a limited series 8-episode run on the Conquest though. I think there is enough material to cover the time period between the Targaryen migration to the end of the Conquest.
Posted on 9/27/22 at 1:45 pm to Bronc
quote:
House of The Dragon, Dunk and Egg, Blackfyre Rebellion, maybe Century of Blood if you are feeling bold, then go ahead and maybe reboot GoT in 10 years after GRRM finally finishes Winds of Winter.
GRRM mentioned that HBO is filming a Dunk and Egg series, which based on the books should be amazing.
apparently there is also other series being produced based on someone called 'Nymeria' and another series on Corlys Valryon and his sea voyages.....honestly i'm not that interested in seeing either of these.
blackfyre rebellion seems like a good candidate for a series to me, but there wouldn't be any dragons during that time period though.
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