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re: Game of Thrones S7 E6 "Beyond The Wall" MAESTERS THREAD NO SPOILERS
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:30 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:30 pm to WestCoastAg
Not sure what kind of point you're trying to make here?
The issues around the Lannister incest involves adultery against the king and false legitimacy of his heirs.
These are not issues with a Jon-Dany relationship.
The Targs ruled through incest for how many years?
The issues around the Lannister incest involves adultery against the king and false legitimacy of his heirs.
These are not issues with a Jon-Dany relationship.
The Targs ruled through incest for how many years?
1
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:32 pm to LakeviewYakker
quote:
I'm not so sure about that. Incest was the Targaryen way. Sort of like the "Home" episode of X-Files but for a Westeros royal family.
the "old way"
danaerys is about the "new" way
i honestly cant believe this is even a discussion. yes they will fall in love (already happening) but no they will not rule together happily ever after, once the truth is revealed
what show are y'all watching?
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:33 pm to P-Dawg
quote:
On the bright side, I think the next episode will be really, really good. RA'D FOR SPOILERS.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:35 pm to monkeybutt
quote:i do think people will have issues with whatever heirs jon and dany have through incest
These are not issues with a Jon-Dany relationship.
quote:and that was a different time with a different established universe. in the universe that we have seen, people dont seem cool with it
The Targs ruled through incest for how many years?
this isnt a hill im prepared to die on, if its no big deal then its no big deal. i just think it will
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:39 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
i do think people will have issues with whatever heirs jon and dany have through incest
I just don't see where you're making this assumption from?
Certainly not because of what happened with Joffrey.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:39 pm to PsychTiger
SKIYP
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:42 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
you really dont see a problem with their heirs having legitimacy problems?
If they had a kid then he/she would be legitimate. An incest baby but still legitimate.
quote:
yea, three and fourth cousins got married. not aunt and nephews
No some of them had aunt/uncle and niece/nephew marriages. Many also had first cousin marriage (so even closer than 3rd and 4th). The Egyptians were particularly into brother sister marriage as well.
quote:
people in this universe have a problem with brother and sister relationships.
No they didn't. They had a problem with Cersei and Jamie because of the illegitimate children sitting on the throne.
Once again I honestly don't think it will matter because the show probably won't show any reaction from the people. Even if Dany or Jon ends up dying we won't know if people will look down upon whoever is still the ruler. The writers nor GRRM are planning that far ahead. Interestingly enough in an interview a few years back Martin specifically mentioned aunt and nephew marriages when Targ incest came up.
I don't believe Jon and Dany will get married and live happily ever after but I do believe something will come out of all of this.
This post was edited on 8/21/17 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:46 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:i disagree but thats just my opinion
If they had a kid then he/she would be legitimate. An incest baby but still legitimate.
quote:like who? im legit curious cause ive always assumed that they were usually second or third or fourth cousins
No some of them had aunt/uncle and niece/nephew marriages. Many also had first cousin marriage
quote:bullshite. just this freaking season jaimie freaked out when qyburn(?) came to her door. because its not accepted
They had a problem with Cersei and Jamie because of the illegitimate children sitting on the throne.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:52 pm to hambones
I specifically stated in my thread that I was NOT saying that that prediction was true. Nice try though.
What you're REALLY pissed about is that I got tired of taking the shite that was thrown at me and I started throwing it back.
quote:
Slippy my friend, I think you made the ultra cool super secret Maester's list. Prepare to be thrashed Not saying your feeling is true, but I know the intolerance some have for predictions of any kind.
What you're REALLY pissed about is that I got tired of taking the shite that was thrown at me and I started throwing it back.
This post was edited on 8/21/17 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:52 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
i disagree but thats just my opinion
I don't understand how you can have an opinion that a child of a crowned king and queen is not a legitimate heir.
quote:
bullshite. just this freaking season jaimie freaked out when qyburn(?) came to her door. because its not accepted
I really think this still boils down to not wanting to give confirmation of the rumors of their incestuous relationship, which flows into the Queen's adultery against the king and that both Joffrey and Tommen were illegitimate kings.
You really don't want the general public starting to believe those rumors about their current Queen.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:57 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
bullshite. just this freaking season jaimie freaked out when qyburn(?) came to her door. because its not accepted
Cersei basically killed the pope and got away with it. I really think you're overestimating how strongly the commoners will object to the Mother of Dragons marrying her nephew, especially since she will in theory have saved them from the WW and the Mad Queen that killed the pope.
This post was edited on 8/21/17 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 8/21/17 at 3:58 pm to monkeybutt
quote:because i dont think its too much of a stretch for people to go "that is incest, incest is not natural, that kid therefore is a product of something that is not natural, therefore he is not the rightful heir"
I don't understand how you can have an opinion that a child of a crowned king and queen is not a legitimate heir.
quote:that could play a part, i also believe that the overall attitude towards incestuous relationships have led them to hide their relationship their whole life and jaimie has an inherit reaction against letting anyone know who dont already know
I really think this still boils down to not wanting to give confirmation of the rumors of their incestuous relationship
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:01 pm to tommy2tone1999
Dude you suck. Go to the other thread. You knew exactly what you were doing. My opinion of you was cemented when i finished reading your post. It wreaked of, "I know something you don't know but you just guessed pretty close! You're gonna get blasted!"
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:01 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
i disagree but thats just my opinion
That's not something that can be an opinion. An illegitimate child is one produced out of wedlock. If the parents are married then the child is legitimate. It has nothing to do with incest.
quote:
like who? im legit curious cause ive always assumed that they were usually second or third or fourth cousins
The most notable would be Queen Victoria. Her and her husband were first cousins. Her granddaughter married two first cousins. One of the Portuguese royal families featured aunt-nephew and uncle-niece marriages. The Egyptians (Cleopatra's line) was filled with incest of all kinds.
quote:Jamie was wondering what Qyburn was talking to Cersei about.
bullshite. just this freaking season jaimie freaked out when qyburn(?) came to her door. because its not accepted
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:04 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
because i dont think its too much of a stretch for people to go "that is incest, incest is not natural, that kid therefore is a product of something that is not natural, therefore he is not the rightful heir"
It was only like 30 years ago or so that incest heirs were seen as rightful heirs for hundreds of years.
I think it is a stretch to think that's how people will react.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:04 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:ok? i never said it was THE reason. i said it was another one on top of
That's not something that can be an opinion. An illegitimate child is one produced out of wedlock. If the parents are married then the child is legitimate. It has nothing to do with incest.
quote:the time that they were in bed and interrupted? he freaked out and tried to hide
Jamie was wondering what Qyburn was talking to Cersei about.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:05 pm to monkeybutt
given the seven years we have had in this universe, i dont think its a stretch at all
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:06 pm to monkeybutt
I was under the impression that incest was always frowned upon by the Faith of the Seven, and back before the Targs took over, the Faith had a much tighter grip on the ruling family. Then the Targs came over, basically killed the Faith's influence, and said incest in the ruling family was a-okay.
The whole problem with Jaime and Cersei wasn't so much that incest was frowned upon, but rather their children's only claim to the crown was due to Robert being the dad. Since the Targs were no longer in power, incest was frowned upon again, especially by Tywin, so they had to keep the lie up that they were Robert's kids.
Since the Faith has basically been nuked, Jaime and Cersei can have all the little incest babies they want without any repercussions. It no longer matters about whether or not they're incestuous, because what's the other real alternative? Another Targaryen from the family that started the whole incest train to begin with.
The whole problem with Jaime and Cersei wasn't so much that incest was frowned upon, but rather their children's only claim to the crown was due to Robert being the dad. Since the Targs were no longer in power, incest was frowned upon again, especially by Tywin, so they had to keep the lie up that they were Robert's kids.
Since the Faith has basically been nuked, Jaime and Cersei can have all the little incest babies they want without any repercussions. It no longer matters about whether or not they're incestuous, because what's the other real alternative? Another Targaryen from the family that started the whole incest train to begin with.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:08 pm to 1BamaRTR
Just to add most of Dany's life she believed she would marry her brother. Her father and mother were also brother and sister. So going down to the nephew would not be strange to her.
But I don't think it happens for other reasons.
But I don't think it happens for other reasons.
Posted on 8/21/17 at 4:08 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
the time that they were in bed and interrupted? he freaked out and tried to hide
That was her maid not Qyburn. And Cersei's response was she was Queen and can do what she wants. Plus their relationship is confirming that the rumors about Joffrey and Tommen not being Robert's and thus false kings.
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