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Game of Thrones: How much does incest and rape shape the themes and plot?
Posted on 5/11/19 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 5/11/19 at 1:15 pm
Ok, before 3 days ago, I have never seen a full episode. I had only see 3 scenes. I didn't think much of it from those scenes, which included the "red wedding." Meh
Of course, fb feeds and peeps at work....blah, blah, blah...you need to watch it. After the RandR HOF on HBO the other night, I saw an episode was being replayed. I watched it.
I have to say it was a miserable experience. I thought it sucked. I know it was one episode, but damn! Too dark, depressing, poor dialogue, it looks like someone from late night Cinamax at times.
I then decided today to watch clips from the first episode. I see that twins have sex. What????
So then I look into YouTube videos and articles about the seasons. There seems to be constant incest and rape. The numbers of rape per season seem so high. I see many articles about how both incest and rape is glorified at times.
....so...thoughts? Someone want to explain all this to me? Is it as horrible as it seems from the outside looking in?
Thanks!
Of course, fb feeds and peeps at work....blah, blah, blah...you need to watch it. After the RandR HOF on HBO the other night, I saw an episode was being replayed. I watched it.
I have to say it was a miserable experience. I thought it sucked. I know it was one episode, but damn! Too dark, depressing, poor dialogue, it looks like someone from late night Cinamax at times.
I then decided today to watch clips from the first episode. I see that twins have sex. What????
So then I look into YouTube videos and articles about the seasons. There seems to be constant incest and rape. The numbers of rape per season seem so high. I see many articles about how both incest and rape is glorified at times.
....so...thoughts? Someone want to explain all this to me? Is it as horrible as it seems from the outside looking in?
Thanks!
11
Posted on 5/11/19 at 1:19 pm to lsufan9193969700
It's not constant. But incest and rape are a thing, and the show (like the books) doesn't shy away from it. Kind of like real life can be ugly and brutal, so is GoT. (well, the first 4 or 5 seasons anyway)
This isn't The Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings. The characters are real people, and like real people in real life, they can be real assholes sometimes.
Though I will say that the sexual violence got turned way down after a particular scene was met with some loud criticism.
This isn't The Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings. The characters are real people, and like real people in real life, they can be real assholes sometimes.
Though I will say that the sexual violence got turned way down after a particular scene was met with some loud criticism.
This post was edited on 5/11/19 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 5/11/19 at 1:30 pm to Shiftyplus1
quote:
This isn't The Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings. The characters are real people, and like real people in real life, they can be real a-holes sometimes.
I totally understand what you mean, especially that last sentence, but how are these characters "real" and the characters from the other aforementioned movies are not? I would tend to say that none of the characters in any of the films you mentioned are real people, even the zombie seeing, dragon riding, magical peeps in GOT.
Now, back to the question at hand. You said it isn't constant. The numbers of scenes listed on various sites seem to suggest it is. The main question though is do these two ideas move the main plots? Do they shape the larger themes?
This post was edited on 5/11/19 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 5/11/19 at 1:34 pm to lsufan9193969700
The incest relationship is a major plot driver, but it doesn't get shown on screen much. There are only 2 or 3 scenes of it onscreen. There are a few rape/attempted rape scenes scattered throughout the show, but once again, you can count them on one hand.
Full female nudity (and occasional full male nudity) is pretty common for the first 4 seasons, but pretty much disappears for the most part in the last couple seasons. In fact, a lot of the main characters pretty much stop being nude after season 1.
Episode 1 is a shock to your system designed to prepare you for the fact that this is a very different show from what you're used to, but the whole show isn't like that. From here on out, there will be that level of brutality scattered about, but not constantly.
Full female nudity (and occasional full male nudity) is pretty common for the first 4 seasons, but pretty much disappears for the most part in the last couple seasons. In fact, a lot of the main characters pretty much stop being nude after season 1.
Episode 1 is a shock to your system designed to prepare you for the fact that this is a very different show from what you're used to, but the whole show isn't like that. From here on out, there will be that level of brutality scattered about, but not constantly.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 1:40 pm to lsufan9193969700
Cersei and Jamie’s incest is a long lasting and major theme of the series.
The prior line of kings (Targaryens) had a long history of brother sister incest as well which apparently contributed to the bad mental health of the Mad King, who got deposed 15-20 years prior to the series.
There is at least one other group which practices incest which is lowborn and can best be compared to a polygamist cult.
Rape OTOH is treated as a way of life in the show. There is a reason one character is nicknamed “The Mountain That Rapes”.
Highborn women are usually protected from it during peacetime. In war, anything goes.
Lowborn women? They’re fricked, literally and metaphorically.
The prior line of kings (Targaryens) had a long history of brother sister incest as well which apparently contributed to the bad mental health of the Mad King, who got deposed 15-20 years prior to the series.
There is at least one other group which practices incest which is lowborn and can best be compared to a polygamist cult.
Rape OTOH is treated as a way of life in the show. There is a reason one character is nicknamed “The Mountain That Rapes”.
Highborn women are usually protected from it during peacetime. In war, anything goes.
Lowborn women? They’re fricked, literally and metaphorically.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 1:56 pm to lsufan9193969700
It was great during 2010 because the SJW have yet to take over and Outrage culture was not yet mainstream. Unfortunately now it will be dissected and trash by the new hipsters and sjw twats.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 2:02 pm to Duzz
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Game of Thrones: How much does incest and rape shape the themes and plot? by Duzz
It was great during 2010 because the SJW have yet to take over and Outrage culture was not yet mainstream. Unfortunately now it will be dissected and trash by the new hipsters and sjw twats.
Your comments are ambiguous. Could you reframe them to explain how they relate to my questions?
Posted on 5/11/19 at 2:22 pm to lsufan9193969700
I’ll put it this way, there’s a major plot point where a Lannister soldier brutally murders and stabs a 3 year old, and then follows it up with smashing an infant’s head against the wall all to end it with raping their mother to death with her children’s brains and blood all over them. So yeah, it gets into rape.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 3:08 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I’ll put it this way, there’s a major plot point where a Lannister soldier brutally murders and stabs a 3 year old, and then follows it up with smashing an infant’s head against the wall all to end it with raping their mother to death with her children’s brains and blood all over them. So yeah, it gets into rape.
That's quite disturbing.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 3:10 pm to lsufan9193969700
It produced Ramsay Bastard, his conception was rather brutal.
He was actually a nice guy in the show, compared to books.
He was actually a nice guy in the show, compared to books.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 3:34 pm to lsufan9193969700
quote:
constant incest and rape
Of course! Why else did you think the show was so popular on an SEC message board?
The best is when the queen forces her younger cousin to have sex with her, so you get just a little bit of rape mixed in with the incest there.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 3:53 pm to SEClint
quote:
produced Ramsay Bastard, his conception was rather brutal.
I'll have to Google that because I have no clue...
Posted on 5/11/19 at 4:07 pm to lsufan9193969700
quote:
Game of Thrones: How much does incest and rape shape the themes and plot?
Not as much as OML would like.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 4:20 pm to lsufan9193969700
quote:
The numbers of rape per season seem so high.
Meh. There is a lot of rape discussed in the source material, that's for sure. But these scenes in the show where the couple is married or (in the case of Jaime/Cersei) in a long, long term relationship fall kind of short of "rape" for me.
Incest is literally a historical fact, particularly among noble and royal families. So, I don't get the abject revulsion on those topics, although I get that it is a modern taboo for a lot of good reasons.
This post was edited on 5/11/19 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 5/11/19 at 4:35 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Incest is literally a historical fact,
GOT is fiction, though, baw.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 4:42 pm to lsufan9193969700
quote:
GOT is fiction, though, baw.
It's based on reality, though. A medieval reality. And it really persisted.
Recall how hemophilia spread throughout the royal families of Europe via Queen Victoria's daughters, just a little over a hundred years ago.
Recall the two largest armies to collide in World War I - Germany and Russia - those nations were led by monarchs Kaiser Wilhelm II and Tsar Nicholas II. Those two sovereigns were simultaneously first cousins, second cousins once removed and third cousins once removed, via various shared ancestry. Nicholas II's wife was also Wilhelm's first cousin, as they were both grandchildren of Queen Victoria.
And again, this wasn't in medieval times, this was in our great-grandparents' time.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 5:13 pm to lsufan9193969700
Incest and rape are part of the show just like they were part of wars and royal families in real life. Yeah it’s a fantasy show but it’s not some fairy tale show (at least most of the seasons weren’t).
But it’s not glorified. The incest is a problem for those certain characters. The rape just showcases the brutality of the world. There’s also so much else going on in the show. It’s not all about just that.
But it’s not glorified. The incest is a problem for those certain characters. The rape just showcases the brutality of the world. There’s also so much else going on in the show. It’s not all about just that.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 5:30 pm to Shiftyplus1
quote:
This isn't The Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings. The characters are real people, and like real people in real life, they can be real assholes sometimes.
Posted on 5/11/19 at 6:47 pm to lsufan9193969700
quote:
I'll have to Google that because I have no clue...
Ramsay is the product of rape between Roose Bolton and a miller's wife. While hunting along the Weeping Water, Roose saw the miller's wife and decided to illicitly practice the banned tradition of the first night, wherein a lord had the right to bed the commoner's bride. He hanged the miller under a tree for not informing his lord of the new marriage, and raped the bride beneath his swaying body. A year later the woman arrived at the Dreadfort with the newborn Ramsay. Roose nearly killed her and the babe, but when he saw the child had his eyes, let him live.
This post was edited on 5/11/19 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 5/11/19 at 7:09 pm to lsufan9193969700
quote:
How much does incest and rape shape the themes and plot?
Literally the driving force of the entire show from season 1 to now. It is a retelling of medieval history in a sort of way.
Bran out the window-incest
Jon's existence-rape
Jon and Danny - incest
Danny acquiring the dragons and her army and getting everything - rape
Should I go on?
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