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Started By
Message
re: Disney Marvel: Spider-Man girlfriend Mary Jane Watson to be tortured & killed
Posted on 4/26/22 at 1:56 pm to abellsujr
Posted on 4/26/22 at 1:56 pm to abellsujr
Telling people what is going on is doing something about it. Because I can’t not spend the money on marvel comics or the Marvel comic universe any less than I am now.
So I don’t know why you would say I’m doing ‘nothing’.
It’s not so much people are telling me that I am wrong, it’s just them
telling me to shut the hell up cause they don’t wanna hear bad news. Or that what I’m saying is crazy because nothing like this can happen. Or that it’s not different from what has already happened, even when it is.
I get it, there are a lot of people who think the Star Wars sequels were just fine. They don’t like being told they are hot garbage. Or that the phase 4 of the MCU is also hot garbage.
I’m not just saying it is hot garbage, I am saying why.
So I don’t know why you would say I’m doing ‘nothing’.
It’s not so much people are telling me that I am wrong, it’s just them
telling me to shut the hell up cause they don’t wanna hear bad news. Or that what I’m saying is crazy because nothing like this can happen. Or that it’s not different from what has already happened, even when it is.
I get it, there are a lot of people who think the Star Wars sequels were just fine. They don’t like being told they are hot garbage. Or that the phase 4 of the MCU is also hot garbage.
I’m not just saying it is hot garbage, I am saying why.
1
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:04 pm to statman34
quote:
And thus the real issue with where all of the comic books have gone in the last 30 years...abandoning the illusion of change in favor of wholesale sweeping changes to move the characters forward. It's poison either way for characters that are not supposed to really have anything lasting happen to them.
That last part is the problem.
When Stan and Jack began their Timely run together, the idea was these characters would change and evolve over time. They didn't count on the characters becoming so wildly popular that they would have to slow down their aging.
For example, Peter Parker's first appearance was as a freshman in high school. Approximately four years later (real time) he graduated from high school and started college. His four years (of in-comics time) of college took 10 years in real time. After that it became a bit more ambiguous as he went to graduate school, dropped out, made at least one other attempt and got married (over the course of the next 10-ish years).
Meanwhile in DC... it would be another 3-4 years of real time before Superman revealed his secret identity to Lois Lane (ie: 53 years of real time).
During the following years the DC characters would grow and change a bit more than they had previously but much of Marvel's primary stable would slow down. Over the last twenty-ish years there's been hardly any change to their characters that could be definable (it's more difficult to gauge this with DC as they've had multiple universe reboots).
Characters who aren't immortal or extremely long lived should be allowed to age and eventually die off (or just age out, maybe making a cameo return years later as an aged mentor or something). This makes room for other stories with other characters. Instead, we get a scant few original stories between lots of fillers which are often re-treads of past original stories.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:21 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
Ok, so you do care about doing your part in communicating your beliefs and in doing so it can have an impact on the issue. You are correct. It can.
I think what you’re failing in is your inability to understand that you can also have a negative impact on your issue. At least negative in your eyes. Or you understand you can have a negative impact and don’t care.
Understand that your opinion on this specific issue is in the minority at this location. So how you come across can have a severely negative impact on your beliefs. No you are not reaching the world here. But you are expressing yourself in a public environment. So be mindful.
It also sounds like you’re very concerned with receiving personal attacks. And you want to defend yourself with attacks. While you think you are doing the right thing, understand that you are not. I’ll tell you what people see honestly. They see a crazy tin foil hat guy. Thereby making your concerns the concerns of a tin foil hat guy. So they then relay this to other people as the beliefs of a tin foil hat guy. A petty tin foil hat guy who feels the need to defend himself against petty insults WITH petty insults. They do not care that you say “well, they started it!”. Nope.
And somewhere in the world the same thing is going on yielding the same results. In multiple places. Everywhere.
So understand your intentions and really think about what you want to accomplish here.
Or don’t
But it really seems like this issue is important to you, so make sure you understand your impact on things.
I think what you’re failing in is your inability to understand that you can also have a negative impact on your issue. At least negative in your eyes. Or you understand you can have a negative impact and don’t care.
Understand that your opinion on this specific issue is in the minority at this location. So how you come across can have a severely negative impact on your beliefs. No you are not reaching the world here. But you are expressing yourself in a public environment. So be mindful.
It also sounds like you’re very concerned with receiving personal attacks. And you want to defend yourself with attacks. While you think you are doing the right thing, understand that you are not. I’ll tell you what people see honestly. They see a crazy tin foil hat guy. Thereby making your concerns the concerns of a tin foil hat guy. So they then relay this to other people as the beliefs of a tin foil hat guy. A petty tin foil hat guy who feels the need to defend himself against petty insults WITH petty insults. They do not care that you say “well, they started it!”. Nope.
And somewhere in the world the same thing is going on yielding the same results. In multiple places. Everywhere.
So understand your intentions and really think about what you want to accomplish here.
Or don’t
But it really seems like this issue is important to you, so make sure you understand your impact on things.Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:29 pm to abellsujr
There is a bigger issue than this one story. And apparently nothing I say or do will convince people otherwise. It’s like trying to convince people who have been told that a certain virus of unspecified origin actually did come from a lab in Wuhan China. But they have been so conditioned as to not only reject that but also ignore any and all evidence stating that fact.
Some people would rather just believe the lie and go about their merry way. I am here too overturn that apple cart.
Some people would rather just believe the lie and go about their merry way. I am here too overturn that apple cart.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:33 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
Always remember that. And people can smell it.
Subtlety and analyzation wins out every time.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:48 pm to abellsujr
You’re trying to make this about me which tells me you’ve got nothing here.
Thanks
Thanks
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:54 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
Hey, I tried.
This was fun though. Thank you.
I will say that I’m of the opinion communication and perception greatly affect the issues themselves. Which does involve you, and me, and human nature. So technically, it is about you. But I’ve said everything I need to say i guess.
This was fun though. Thank you.
I will say that I’m of the opinion communication and perception greatly affect the issues themselves. Which does involve you, and me, and human nature. So technically, it is about you. But I’ve said everything I need to say i guess.
This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:59 pm to Bard
quote:
For example, Peter Parker's first appearance was as a freshman in high school. Approximately four years later (real time) he graduated from high school and started college. His four years (of in-comics time) of college took 10 years in real time. After that it became a bit more ambiguous as he went to graduate school, dropped out, made at least one other attempt and got married (over the course of the next 10-ish years).
Meanwhile in DC... it would be another 3-4 years of real time before Superman revealed his secret identity to Lois Lane (ie: 53 years of real time).
About the only person whose timeline remained static was Magneto, because being a child of the Holocaust was so integral to his character. I think they eventually decided his power slows his aging? I'm not sure how they've worked it out.
Captain America was always frozen at the same time, but thawed out on a sliding scale.
The same can be said about "Robin" - he eventually grows up, yet Batman is perpetually in his mid-30s.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 3:26 pm to ThoseGuys
quote:
I want to verify. Your issue with this stems from your belief that the left has been effects comic books and injecting woke ideology into them. That too many people are brushing it aside instead of focusing on what a political group is doing to a semi mainstream entertainment venue.
Am I close? I want to make sure we are having a similar conversation. It isn't about Mary Jane herself, or the storyline specifically but rather the larger narrative pushed by the left.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 4:19 pm to ThoseGuys
Mostly, yep.
End it isn’t just her death, but the excessive cruelty and gratuitous nature.
End it isn’t just her death, but the excessive cruelty and gratuitous nature.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 4:32 pm to ThoseGuys
The concept of the theory is basically:
There’s a Marxist revolution attempting to happen in which high influence companies are now owned by “them” and are attempting to take control of our entertainment. Thereby attempting to influence us a certain way. Not the entire left in a general sense, but they are USING the left and their liberal philosophies to send that message. That they are hiding behind the left.
The belief is these companies are attempting to destroy American culture as we know it.
Why? Influence. Power. Your history is not important. What you loved and cherished is not important. This new way of thinking is important. If we destroy these things, the new generation will forget them and grasp on to new concepts and ideas.
That’s what he’s trying to say.
What is he saying they are attempting to influence us with? This is where the confusion comes in. For the past decade or so, people have been arguing about what falls in this category of intentional influence. Is there negative influence at all?
Is there a change in media and entertainment in general? Yes. That I agree with. But the question is why. What of those changes is attempting influence for a specific purpose. Is some of that purpose in fact a good thing? Is all of that change bad? Are some of the philosophies a good thing? That’s up to you to decide, but DYOR. Don’t just come in here and listen to this guy who is probably a little young and/or manic and doesn’t fully understand how to communicate his concerns. (Sorry OP, not meant as an insult. I am manic at times as well. )
Is all of this true? I really don’t know. When people start talking about Marxism, secret organizations, and mass brainwashing, it starts to feel a little strange. A little “tin foil hat” if you will. Do I want socialism, communism, or marxism? No. Do I enjoy more inclusion? Yes. Just try to decipher it for yourself.
This specific Spider-Man comic issue for me falls under “pushing the envelope for shock value”. We’ve seen that throughout time. It’s an attempt to shock in order to gain attention. Or maybe it’s just because the writer wants to tell the story a specific way. For whatever reason. Because it’s art to him. I don’t know. But I’m just not seeing the connection with this one. This specific issue falls under burning books imo. People are expressive. It’s good people are expressive. I have no interest in this particular comic, but I’m glad the author has the freedom to express himself.
There’s a Marxist revolution attempting to happen in which high influence companies are now owned by “them” and are attempting to take control of our entertainment. Thereby attempting to influence us a certain way. Not the entire left in a general sense, but they are USING the left and their liberal philosophies to send that message. That they are hiding behind the left.
The belief is these companies are attempting to destroy American culture as we know it.
Why? Influence. Power. Your history is not important. What you loved and cherished is not important. This new way of thinking is important. If we destroy these things, the new generation will forget them and grasp on to new concepts and ideas.
That’s what he’s trying to say.
What is he saying they are attempting to influence us with? This is where the confusion comes in. For the past decade or so, people have been arguing about what falls in this category of intentional influence. Is there negative influence at all?
Is there a change in media and entertainment in general? Yes. That I agree with. But the question is why. What of those changes is attempting influence for a specific purpose. Is some of that purpose in fact a good thing? Is all of that change bad? Are some of the philosophies a good thing? That’s up to you to decide, but DYOR. Don’t just come in here and listen to this guy who is probably a little young and/or manic and doesn’t fully understand how to communicate his concerns. (Sorry OP, not meant as an insult. I am manic at times as well.
) Is all of this true? I really don’t know. When people start talking about Marxism, secret organizations, and mass brainwashing, it starts to feel a little strange.
A little “tin foil hat” if you will. Do I want socialism, communism, or marxism? No. Do I enjoy more inclusion? Yes. Just try to decipher it for yourself. This specific Spider-Man comic issue for me falls under “pushing the envelope for shock value”. We’ve seen that throughout time. It’s an attempt to shock in order to gain attention. Or maybe it’s just because the writer wants to tell the story a specific way. For whatever reason. Because it’s art to him. I don’t know. But I’m just not seeing the connection with this one. This specific issue falls under burning books imo. People are expressive. It’s good people are expressive. I have no interest in this particular comic, but I’m glad the author has the freedom to express himself.
This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 4/26/22 at 5:06 pm to abellsujr
I am probably older than most on this board. What I have said is actually been documented buy those who follow entertainment, but also repeated by those who have escaped Communist and totalitarian countries. This is historically what they have seen for themselves. A movement of like-minded individuals who want nothing less than to erase a nations history. You ask why would they do this? Well just look around. Everything we see is being subverted and or torn down. Cancel culture is not simply a hashtag. It’s literally happening And they do it across the board, not just in history but also with pop-culture.
This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 4/26/22 at 5:20 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
What I have said is actually been documented buy those who follow entertainment, but also repeated by those who have escaped Communist and totalitarian countries.
Yes, let us all remember the famous East German philosopher’s quote, circa 1982: “First they came for the comic book character and I did not speak out, for I was not a comic book character.”
Posted on 4/26/22 at 5:36 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:And you have to be careful to not let yourself fall into this category as well.
A movement of like-minded individuals
Self expression through media, inclusion, and empathy are not always forms of extremism. Imo, they are never a bad thing. Saying they are makes your movement appear selfish. And maybe that’s your goal. But I choose to use logic and analyze each individual situation. This to me is a huge stretch.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:12 pm to abellsujr
quote:
And you have to be careful to not let yourself fall into this category as well.
Elaborate, if you will.
quote:
Self expression through media, inclusion, and empathy are not always forms of extremism. Imo, they are never a bad thing. Saying they are makes your movement appear selfish. And maybe that’s your goal. But I choose to use logic and analyze each individual situation. This to me is a huge stretch.
Now you've lost me. It's 'almost' like you're trying to ignore all the parts and bad things you wish weren't a part of the larger picture and pretend this was just some random one off.
It isn't.
Point to where I've said anything remotely close to what you're claiming.
I haven't.
This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 6:14 pm
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:17 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
Post less, OP. 
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:23 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
You will have to pardon me, I always get leery when the majority try telling me the problems in my life are caused by a small minority of the population.
I've seen it play out a few times in history and the people who think they are doing the most good tend to end up the bad guys.
I've seen it play out a few times in history and the people who think they are doing the most good tend to end up the bad guys.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:48 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:You said this in a couple of responses:
Elaborate, if you will.
quote:
I am listening to others more informed.
quote:This kind of feels like you’re being persuaded in some way. Just be careful with group think and look at every issue individually.
I came out posting information that others are saying, not just me.
quote:Well, first of all, you’re attacking freedom of expression through media because your beloved character is being portrayed a way in which you find repulsive. Which you also are free to do, but that by definition is selfish.
Now you've lost me. It's 'almost' like you're trying to ignore all the parts and bad things you wish weren't a part of the larger picture and pretend this was just some random one off. It isn't. Point to where I've said anything remotely close to what you're claiming. I haven't.
I too find this comic to be repulsive as well. And I will not buy it. But I’m not going to attack the author because of it. So your entire thread really is selfish by definition. Which hey, that’s human nature. I understand.
Empathy also falls in that category. This particular comic is being portrayed in the authors view. What is your goal here? To take that right from them? To take that right from everything you don’t like? That shows an inability to understand what other people want. Or understand other peoples right to express.
I can’t really find anything you’ve said against inclusion, but something tells me if you keep talking I will be able to find something.
If your goal is only to make people aware, then great. You’ve done that. We are aware. Some agree. Some don’t.
An authors self expression and take on characters I love does not equate to an uprising for me. If it did, I would have started a war after Batman v Superman.
And this to me feels like you’re taking an alternate take of a character’s story and equating that to Marxism. That jump is such a stretch it’s really amazing. Is every hot take on a character Marxism? Or just the ones you deem fit?This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 6:51 pm
Posted on 4/26/22 at 7:20 pm to abellsujr
quote:
This kind of feels like you’re being persuaded in some way. Just be careful with group think and look at every issue individually.
Yeah, I'm being persuaded by those who know comics, know the history of the characters, and their story lines. Good grief, now who is reaching?
There's no 'group think' here. Try again.
quote:
Well, first of all, you’re attacking freedom of expression through media because your beloved character is being portrayed a way in which you find repulsive. Which you also are free to do, but that by definition is selfish.
I'm not attacking any such thing. I'm calling out the REASON behind such treatment. That's the difference you continue to pretend not to get.
They're not MY beloved characters, not in this particular case, at least.
quote:
I too find this comic to be repulsive as well. And I will not buy it. But I’m not going to attack the author because of it. So your entire thread really is selfish by definition. Which hey, that’s human nature. I understand.
Not remotely selfish, to be honest. The fans of Sonic reacted negatively at the CG rendering of THEIR beloved hedgehog, before the first movie came out. The studio could have given the long time fans the
and said 'Screw you! It's OURS, we'll decide how to do it! " To their credit, that's not what happened. The studio LISTENED to the fans, who had the best interest of the image and appearance of Sonic, and guess what? They went back to work, FIXED the design, and everyone was quite happy! The movie was a great success, and we've just seen a very successful sequel released!
Without respect, the fans reject.
quote:
Empathy also falls in that category. This particular comic is being portrayed in the authors view. What is your goal here? To take that right from them? To take that right from everything you don’t like? That shows an inability to understand what other people want. Or understand other peoples right to express.
Your comprehension of 'rights' is laughably misplaced. I think you're just trolling now, to be honest.
quote:
I can’t really find anything you’ve said against inclusion, but something tells me if you keep talking I will be able to find something.
Why would you even dream to imagine that has any damn thing to do with THIS issue, at all?
Weird.
quote:
An authors self expression and take on characters I love does not equate to an uprising for me. If it did, I would have started a war after Batman v Superman. And this to me feels like you’re taking an alternate take of a character’s story and equating that to Marxism. That jump is such a stretch it’s really amazing. Is every hot take on a character Marxism? Or just the ones you deem fit?
The author works for a company which oversees the work. So if it gets green lit, it's not just on the creator, but Marvel comics as a whole.
It's not an 'alternate' take. It's being woven into an ongoing and larger story. And as I've said a dozen times by now, it's not JUST this storyline which has me keen on what is happening industry wide and across entertainment in general.
Your lack of awareness and ignorance changes nothing. Duck your head under as many covers as you wish.
The creator is (allegedly) planning on filleting a character alive. Try to keep that in mind when you speak of inclusion and empathy.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 7:45 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:You keep talking to people in this “gotcha!” tone thinking I’m trying to “get you”.
Yeah, I'm being persuaded by those who know comics, know the history of the characters, and their story lines. Good grief, now who is reaching? There's no 'group think' here. Try again.
I’m not. I’m just telling you to watch out for it. If you are, great. I thought we went over this already. This is how you continue to create hate. You really want people to care about what you want to say?
quote:I know what you think the reason is. I just fail to see the connection. Or at least any proof of the connection. To me, it’s no different than Superman being killed in BvS. Or Superman doing questionable things. I didn’t care for it, but I didn’t take it as Marxism.
I'm not attacking any such thing. I'm calling out the REASON behind such treatment. That's the difference you continue to pretend not to get.
quote:Very true. And the creators chose to change it. Thereby making the change their expression. As I said, you have a right to speak about something that you don’t like. However, people have a right to agree or not. And you’re still failing to connect the dots to Marxism. Creative expression you disagree with does not automatically = Marxism.
Not remotely selfish, to be honest. The fans of Sonic reacted negatively at the CG rendering of THEIR beloved hedgehog, before the first movie came out. The studio could have given the long time fans the and said 'Screw you! It's OURS, we'll decide how to do it! " To their credit, that's not what happened. The studio LISTENED to the fans, who had the best interest of the image and appearance of Sonic, and guess what? They went back to work, FIXED the design, and everyone was quite happy! The movie was a great success, and we've just seen a very successful sequel released! Without respect, the fans reject.
quote:More abrasiveness. Sigh…
Your comprehension of 'rights' is laughably misplaced. I think you're just trolling now, to be honest.
quote:Uh.. I kind of said it didn’t…
Why would you even dream to imagine that has any damn thing to do with THIS issue, at all? Weird.
quote:I really feel like you just have all this anger and frustration and it’s immovable. And that’s ok. You do you. As you said, you’re not concerned how you come across. And don’t care if people agree with you. And don’t care if people “duck their head in the sand”. So it should really be no big deal to you. But you do keep responding…
The author works for a company which oversees the work. So if it gets green lit, it's not just on the creator, but Marvel comics as a whole. It's not an 'alternate' take. It's being woven into an ongoing and larger story. And as I've said a dozen times by now, it's not JUST this storyline which has me keen on what is happening industry wide and across entertainment in general. Your lack of awareness and ignorance changes nothing. Duck your head under as many covers as you wish. The creator is (allegedly) planning on filleting a character alive. Try to keep that in mind when you speak of inclusion and empathy.
I enjoy having discussions with people. I do. And I try to get people to a point where I can have a conversation and really try to understand their concerns. But I think you just have your perception and that’s just that. And that’s ok.
However, you have definitely reaffirmed my view on some people like you. You’re just bad people. And that’s why we don’t care about what you have to say. And that’s how it’s going to be. Good luck.
This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 7:55 pm
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