re: Community and the Death of Quality Network TV

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Multiple times every episode I can easily predict what the punchline is going to be before its even said. That almost never happens with Community.

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i'm the same way

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As far as the unwashed masses, that's just a common phrase and I was using it to make fun of the Intellectual Douchebags that take comfort in the existence of their inferiors.

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The term "Great Unwashed" appears to have originated in 19th Century
Britain.

In 1868, Thomas Wright wrote a book called "The Great Unwashed," about
the working class in Victorian England. No doubt because his book did
a lot to popularize the phrase, Wright is sometimes credited with
coining it, as in this book review by Sasha Abramsky:

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Well I didn't know that.

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You get large audiences by aiming for the middle.

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Everybody Loves Raymond
Home Improvement

Yep, I see your point.

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kingbob

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shoot me an email
<-- at yahoo (no space in my user name)

i know, and i'll admit that sometimes i teeter into that 'viewers are fricking retarded' group, but it's always out of frustration because i see a very good finished product with community and i don't see consumers taking advantage of it.

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Exactly. And this isn't old. Everyone knows that the first two seasons of Seinfeld were not great. The show was given time to find an audience. In the carousel of modern broadcast television, no show is given the time to find its feet, and even when it does, it most likely has already received notice of cancellation.

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But they do so begrudgingly because broadcast companies are so focused on the viewer count and advertising money.

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This, this, this...fricking this.

That's the #1 problem IMO. Back in the day, shows were given CHANCES to succeed. Nowadays, it doesn't even seem to be about "what have you done for me lately?" more than it's "what are you doing for me right.....NOW?!?!" Networks feel like if a show isn't producing insane numbers then they can't maximize advertising dollars, and thus the show gets nixed.

Nevermind that some of the most insanely popular TV shows of all time (Seinfeld, Cheers, etc.) were borderline flops in their initial seasons, networks seem to have forgotten that. Either that, or they simply don't care anymore. So you have shows that, like Baloo said, aren't drawing in huge numbers, but are drawing in smaller, more fanatical audiences. And instead of trying to build upon that, they are axing the shows left and right.

Also agree with Baloo that generally speaking, America wants "easy." They want simple, reformulated, regurgitated jokes over and over. They want the same old sitcoms they've always been comfortable with. That's why shows like Arrested Development or Community, which are more quick-witted and a little sharper (note: not "smarter"....sharper) don't draw in the same mass audiences as a show like BBT or 2.5Men. And those types of shows also require a bit of back knowledge of the show, which is why those shows struggle to gain viewers...if you're not familiar with the show and the characters, it makes it more difficult to follow along and know what's funny. While other, more mainstream shows are more easily identifiable and easier to draw in casual viewers. And that sucks...there should definitely be a place for both kinds of shows on network TV. But since it's all about "what are you doing for me right now?" those shows can't survive and instead get replaced with shite like Whitney or some new reality show regurgitation that every other channel has.

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There is an EASY fix to all of this: Overhaul the Ratings system to include Online, OnDemand and all kinds of consumption. THAT will give you the audience and broadcast shows may gain more freedom because that is where audiences are lining up.

It's so simple it's ridiculous, but as long as they stay married to the insanely inefficient method of Nielsen ratings, you won't see a change.

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This as well. I agree that it seems so fricking simple. Ever since VCRs existed on a massive scale, I'm sure Neilson ratings have been flawed and even more inexact. And what kills it is that ever since the introduction of things like TiVo, DVR, OnDemand services, and other recording devices, that information seems like it should be infinitely more accessible than in times past. shite, even things like network websites that broadcast episodes can be evaluated to see how many views this show got or that episode gets. It's so frustrating to see that all the information is there for the taking yet the networks still remain in the old "get off my lawn" frame of mind and refuse to acknowledge reforming their ratings systems.

Reality TV will seemingly always outdraw "good" TV shows, but it's frustrating that networks refuse to give promising shows a chance or more than a couple of seasons to prove themselves.

And I'm not saying NBC isn't giving Community a chance, as it's in its third full season, and it's already renewed for a fourth (even if it ends up being shortened). But like I said before, it's a shame that there can't be places for this type of show somewhere on the schedule. Especially when everyone knows that more people watch the show than the ratings show (DVR, OnDemand, websites, torrents, whatever).

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im not trying to be an a-hole or anything but i really did not comprehend this.

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Not sure if you're being sarcastic or I was being unclear.

Douchebags like this derive self esteem from what they view as their physical or really aesthetic superiority.


Intellectual Douchebags are pretty much the same thing except they derive self esteem from a perceived Intellectual superiority. They may well be intellectually superior, but they also are assholes about it.

There are several things that stunt the creative process when it comes to the networks, thereby basically eliminating their willingness to take risks.

One problem is that they are all lemmings. That's the reason that Happy Endings, Traffic Light, and Perfect Couples all started at the same time. On 3 different networks, as mid season replacements. All with basically the same premise. It should come as no surprise that the one with the highest number of familiar faces is the only one still on the air. The only reason we have quality shows like P&R and Modern Family is because they were so similar to The Office.

Another problem is that they keep themselves so hemmed in with the way they format their seasons and air their shows. Chuck would get a 13 episode order and have tightly written 13 episode arc, only to be extended for 6 more episodes to have the writers scrambling and decreasing the quality of the episodes.

There is also very little leeway for a show that doesn't find an audience right away. On the cable channels, a show can go a full season with only a modest audience, because the commitment was made for the whole season. And if it gets picked up, there is a marketing blitz and full marathon of the first season to pull in more viewers. Network shows get buried instead of promoted.

The way ratings are calculated is also a joke. I'd like to see Hulu, Amazon Prime, Netflix, and whatever other quatifiable way of measuring how many people are actually watching rolled into the numbers.

There are a lot of other things working against the creative process at the networks, but that is all I could think of at the moment.

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Not sure if you're being sarcastic or I was being unclear.

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i was a little confused if the douchebags you were referring to were 2 and a half men fans or was i misinterpreting it. wasnt to clear on how the statements blended together

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This, this, this...fricking this.

That's the #1 problem IMO. Back in the day, shows were given CHANCES to succeed. Nowadays, it doesn't even seem to be about "what have you done for me lately?" more than it's "what are you doing for me right.....NOW?!?!" Networks feel like if a show isn't producing insane numbers then they can't maximize advertising dollars, and thus the show gets nixed.

Nevermind that some of the most insanely popular TV shows of all time (Seinfeld, Cheers, etc.) were borderline flops in their initial seasons, networks seem to have forgotten that. Either that, or they simply don't care anymore. So you have shows that, like Baloo said, aren't drawing in huge numbers, but are drawing in smaller, more fanatical audiences. And instead of trying to build upon that, they are axing the shows left and right.

Also agree with Baloo that generally speaking, America wants "easy." They want simple, reformulated, regurgitated jokes over and over. They want the same old sitcoms they've always been comfortable with. That's why shows like Arrested Development or Community, which are more quick-witted and a little sharper (note: not "smarter"....sharper) don't draw in the same mass audiences as a show like BBT or 2.5Men. And those types of shows also require a bit of back knowledge of the show, which is why those shows struggle to gain viewers...if you're not familiar with the show and the characters, it makes it more difficult to follow along and know what's funny. While other, more mainstream shows are more easily identifiable and easier to draw in casual viewers. And that sucks...there should definitely be a place for both kinds of shows on network TV. But since it's all about "what are you doing for me right now?" those shows can't survive and instead get replaced with shite like Whitney or some new reality show regurgitation that every other channel has.

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Well said.

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This as well. I agree that it seems so fricking simple. Ever since VCRs existed on a massive scale, I'm sure Neilson ratings have been flawed and even more inexact. And what kills it is that ever since the introduction of things like TiVo, DVR, OnDemand services, and other recording devices, that information seems like it should be infinitely more accessible than in times past. shite, even things like network websites that broadcast episodes can be evaluated to see how many views this show got or that episode gets. It's so frustrating to see that all the information is there for the taking yet the networks still remain in the old "get off my lawn" frame of mind and refuse to acknowledge reforming their ratings systems.

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It's borderline criminal for the content creators and actors. Their work is not correctly getting tracked.

I'm beginning to think that Netflix doesn't have an analytic backend to their viewing platform.

I mean, they NEED to advertise, and so does Hulu. It's necessary to their continued success. Then they could provide better numbers to the companies. I'm thinking they are the ones that will have to push the change as well. Neilsen has a monopoly and they aren't letting go.

They need to start calibrating their systems and Publicly showing their effect.

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And I'm not saying NBC isn't giving Community a chance, as it's in its third full season, and it's already renewed for a fourth (even if it ends up being shortened). But like I said before, it's a shame that there can't be places for this type of show somewhere on the schedule. Especially when everyone knows that more people watch the show than the ratings show (DVR, OnDemand, websites, torrents, whatever).

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This.