re: Community and the Death of Quality Network TV

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I get what you're saying, but you didn't answer my question. Plus the networks don't get anything close to the type of profits off of a netflix deal as they do off of a DVD deal. Choosing to go to netflix first instead of a dvd sale is less profitable on shows that will sell a fair number of units.

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When talking about DVD and Netflix, we are not necessarily talking about the network and are instead of talking about the studio that produced the show for the network. The network pays the studio to produce the show and make a profit through advertising and not necessarily through the shows digital rights.

That is why btw most other NBC shows are on Netflix and Community is not. NBC studio produces most of their other commedies whereas Sony produces Community. It also makes the question of who fired Harmon interesting as Sony was who he was contracted with not NBC.

If NBC owned Community its fate would probably be far different it was as its ratings are comparable to its other comedies but as NBC doesn't get money from DVD sales, future syndication, or (maybe) digital rights it got relegated to Fridays.

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That is why btw most other NBC shows are on Netflix and Community is not. NBC studio produces most of their other commedies whereas Sony produces Community. It also makes the question of who fired Harmon interesting as Sony was who he was contracted with not NBC.

If NBC owned Community its fate would probably be far different it was as its ratings are comparable to its other comedies but as NBC doesn't get money from DVD sales, future syndication, or (maybe) digital rights it got relegated to Fridays.

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Good catch, that explains it.

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Hoarders gonna Hoard, even if they have NetFlix.

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Man, the truth hurts. This is getting far off topic, and I do completely agree that the entertainment industry has been pretty terrible about new technologies, fighting them every step of the way usually to their own detriment and practically begging consumers to use illegal methods. When they restrict all legal methods, it just drives people to the illegal feeds.

But I want to make a quick defense of physical media. I love owning physical media over the streams because:

A) I’m not dependent on a third party to keep providing the content. No one will ever pull my DVD’s.

B) I may not have as many titles, but I have the ones I want. Sure, Netflix has a ton of titles, but only about 200 you actually want to watch.

C) I have a backup when the system inevitably crashes.

D) DVD’s are still higher quality.

I love having lots of DVD’s (and CD’s). I like owning the content without being at the tender mercies of Netflix of iTunes.

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Plus the networks don't get anything close to the type of profits off of a netflix deal as they do off of a DVD deal. Choosing to go to netflix first instead of a dvd sale is less profitable on shows that will sell a fair number of units.

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NetFlix recently signed a deal for shows from the CW that could be worth up to $1 Billion over the 4 year term. Initial reports from Time Warner suggest it is viewed as a positive arrangement.

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Wednesday: Time Warner Inc. says adjusted income beat Wall Street's expectations on the strengths of the company's television and movie studio businesses. Big performers included "Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows" and "Journey 2: The Mysterious Island." The Warner Bros. division also benefited from higher licensing revenue of TV shows and the availability of a CW television series on Netflix, but revenue from DVDs and other home entertainment sales fell.

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LINK

I don't think NetFlix can remain $8 all you can stream forever, but with a tiered pricing set up I don't see why TV companies can't continue to make money as they move towards streaming, they just need to adjust to the new business model to find new revenue streams like Glee did with iTunes.

Less Access = More Piracy
40% of the old model > 0% of the old model

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NetFlix recently signed a deal for shows from the CW that could be worth up to $1 Billion over the 4 year term. Initial reports from Time Warner suggest it is viewed as a positive arrangement.

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I actually watch shows on the CW (it actually may be my most watched network...which is really sad) and I don't get how the digital rights could be worth that much for their catalog.

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No, it was fine in the context of building an audience, but once it became "what is the next medium?" then it's getting far afield. And my defense of the DVD is quite off topic. But I'm not giving up physical media.

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Well let me take it from here then:

I go back to Casablanca, not because movies aren't different (they are), but because it gets exposure, acclaim and an audience. But that comes from 70 years of talk about the film. How do you get an audience? Being able to condense 70 years of talk into 1 or 2 years of awesome hype. Maybe that's being simplistic in my comparison, but it's important to note that art CAN find an audience.

I say this because of one of my core beliefs: I believe art is quantifiable. Or better said, ART isn't a nebulous concept of quality in something. It's quantifiable, we may not know all the terms or measurables but they exist. And the whole of art is every artist looking for that quantifiable piece of the puzzle. Some people find it, Casablanca. Some people miss it. Some never try but are successful in other ways(BBT) but they aren't important to this discussion.

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But what this really means is that the networks are giving up on quality television. OK, they will still turn out competent procedurals and the like, but they are ceding “art” to the cable networks. The network shows have grown progressively duller while all of the exciting work is being done on AMC, F/X, or HBO. Those of us who look for quality television will completely abandon the networks in the search of said quality. This is the Golden age of Television, and it’s happening without the networks. Tell me, is that actually good for business? The Big Four don’t have room for Community, Justified, Mad Men, and the like?

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I'm going to disagree, because they don't make the shows, they just promote them and allow them to be on their medium. If we are talking strictly about "Artistic" shows, we'll never lose those. Artists aren't going away. I think that although we can be pessimistic, there is an ebb and flow to this problem. They still take chances, but sometimes they just don't understand how to handle a show (and that's the discussion about next format and medium. The problem with Community IS the highly mobile and technologically adapt audience they will not watch a show on their arse at one time per week).

Great art is great for a reason, and WILL find its audience. And broadcast will see that eventually. Rinse and repeat.

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I'm going to disagree, because they don't make the shows, they just promote them and allow them to be on their medium. If we are talking strictly about "Artistic" shows, we'll never lose those. Artists aren't going away. I think that although we can be pessimistic, there is an ebb and flow to this problem. They still take chances, but sometimes they just don't understand how to handle a show (and that's the discussion about next format and medium. The problem with Community IS the highly mobile and technologically adapt audience they will not watch a show on their arse at one time per week).

Great art is great for a reason, and WILL find its audience. And broadcast will see that eventually. Rinse and repeat.

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I honestly think that their is more hope for the broadcast networks than yall are giving them. It sucks that they cancel shows we believe are good but it is not all doom and gloom. There have been allot of rather bold choices on networks in recent years that just have not paned out for one reason or another. Seriously, as the networks on the whole get lower they will start to rival some of their cable rivals as the money is still better on a network show.

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If we are talking strictly about "Artistic" shows, we'll never lose those. Artists aren't going away.

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Of course not. They are just going to cable. There's just too much money at stake on a network show to take bold risks. It's not worth it. Play it safe and up the middle. Hope you get a quality show like the Good Wife which is still quite traditional.

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Sure, you can have funny network shows like Modern Family and The Office, but they don't push the envelope like Community does.

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The Office was a pretty novel idea when it first hit NBC. Obviously they didn't come up with the concept, but it was innovative for it's time.

I prefer shows that take chances and try to be different more often than not, but even shows like Modern Family and Parks, that are pretty derivative, can still be good shows.

Not many. I tried to see what was on air, and I found the top 20:
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ER was at the end of its creative peak, but it was still a great show in 1997.
Seinfeld for sure, maybe Friends which was at least a genre defining show.
NYPD Blue was massively overrated, and far inferior to Homicide, which was on the air then, but near the end of its run.
The Drew Carey Show had fits of insane brilliance. I’d definitely include it.
The X-Files.

Aha, looked up on wiki. What else?

Roseanne and Married with Children ended their runs, mainly out of gas. Buffy started up, but the WB barely counts. The Simpsons was at the peak of its powers. That’s about it. I think Cracker was years ahead of its time, but poorly executed.