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re: Can I get a list of the sad souls who hated Star Wars?
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:41 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:41 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Episode VII pulled this off perfectly. Episode VIII and IX I expect to be much different than V and VI respectively.
I usually tune out people who criticize TFA being a reboot of ANH. After the first act, TFA much more closely mirrors ROTJ with a few themes from TESB thrown in.
Abrams reintroduced the core themes from the OT in only two hours - and these themes were sorely lacking from the prequels. But he didn't use themes exactly like the OT - he showed these themes from a different perspective.
I thought he did a great job of intertwining the old and the new.
My biggest complaint of the film was recycling the same McGuffin from IV and VI. A new Death Star was unnecessary. That said, just about everything else in that film is pulled off wonderfully.
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Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:45 am to OMLandshark
quote:
My point is to relaunch the brand you need to do something familiar for the audience and get the story to a point where it needs to be to launch creativity with the storytelling. Episode VII pulled this off perfectly.
You are telling the audience that they are a bunch of retards and can follow a story line. That may be true with people in here defending a rehashing of IV.
quote:
Episode VIII and IX I expect to be much different than V and VI respectively.
This you are just guessing with no good data to back it up.
quote:
This movie doesn't on its own, but it's a great start and makes up greatly for the shortfalls of the prequels and Return of the Jedi.
Here you are saying it doesn't stand on it's own, even though we know it is a series, it should stand on it's own for the most part.
VII is just like most of the other films in the series and just meh. I went in watching only the teaser trailer and reading no reviews to temper my expectations. I left the theater feeling just meh about the film in general. I hope you are right about the next two being different. They have set the bar low and just because they go above it next time, won't make the next two movies good.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:49 am to fr33manator
quote:
You have to explain away every valid criticism. And poorly.
To be fair, most of your criticisms aren't valid. You have in your head what you wanted to see. It didn't happen so you've constructed these criticism based on faulty assumptions which you've surrounded by a wall impenetrable to reason.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:57 am to OMLandshark
quote:
You're not getting my point.
No, I understand your point.
I just believe there are ways to make a Star Wars movie without rehashing A New Hope. The decision to do so indicates either a lack of creativity, or fanboyism.
quote:
JJ And Kasden have given it high marks and are a bit pissed they didn't agree to work on the project. Yes, they do have a vested interest, but to say that Rian Johnson will make a better movie than they did right during their big release is high praise.
This is business, they say things to be polite, and because they have to.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:58 am to Lima Whiskey
just dropping in to post this
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:05 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I don't hate it, but I could give it more than two out of five stars.
How can you defend subtracting 3 stars from the movie? It has energetic likable characters (which is usually enough for me to give it 3 stars), it has practical effects, tells a classic story,and it's fun. I just don't see where the movie has more failures than successes. And for reference, here's how I'd rank the Star Wars films using a 5 star scale:
1) The Empire Strikes Back- 5 stars
2) The Force Awakens- 4.5 stars
3) Star Wars- 4.5 stars
4) Return of the Jedi- 3.5 stars
5) Revenge of the Sith- 2.5 stars
6) The Phantom Menace- 1.5 stars
7) Attack of the Clones- .5 stars
quote:
We would be much more critical if it wasn't Star Wars.
Yeah, it's not as if the prequels are the most criticized movies in cinematic history or anything.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:12 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Finally, if the recycling that make it a Star Wars movie. What does that mean for the future? How much creative freedom exists in the Star Wars universe?
Ask everyone who wants Kylo Ren to be Vader 2.0.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:21 am to OMLandshark
There is no way TPM is a whole star better than AOTC. TPM is the worst Star Wars movie.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:25 am to LSUSUPERSTAR
quote:
You are telling the audience that they are a bunch of retards and can follow a story line. That may be true with people in here defending a rehashing of IV.
After trade routes, a truly worthless war by definition, midiclorians, and a protagonist who butchers women and children, then yeah give me something familiar.
quote:
This you are just guessing with no good data to back it up.
I have Rian Johnson writing and directing it, which is some pretty good evidence in my favor.
quote:
Here you are saying it doesn't stand on it's own, even though we know it is a series, it should stand on it's own for the most part.
Well, the Empire Strikes Back doesn't hold up on its own, and it's the best film in the series. Neither do any of the Lord of the Rings. I don't think it's a fair criticism until you see the true finished product.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:26 am to Antonio Moss
i can lightly defend TPM but AOTC is the worst movie i've ever seen in a movie theater the whole way through
there is a ton wrong with TPM (and it is by no means a good movie) but everything is wrong with AOTC
at the very least, at least TPM had 2 very well done action scenes that still stand the test of time. now how they got to those scenes was shite, but there are no 2 points of positivity in AOTC that can be referenced (while still having the same plot issues)
there is a ton wrong with TPM (and it is by no means a good movie) but everything is wrong with AOTC
at the very least, at least TPM had 2 very well done action scenes that still stand the test of time. now how they got to those scenes was shite, but there are no 2 points of positivity in AOTC that can be referenced (while still having the same plot issues)
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:38 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
There is no way TPM is a whole star better than AOTC. TPM is the worst Star Wars movie.
I think you and I see mostly eye to eye on the flaws of the movie, I just think TOM's worthlessness is in its favor and can be ignored, and some things about the movie are simply so wrong it's comical. Plus the podrace scene is legitimately exciting, I didn't mind the Tatooine scenes all that much, and it's hard to deny the Darth Maul fight is cool. AOTC is just thoroughly unpleasant and can't be ignored unfortunately.
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 10:46 am
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:43 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I just believe there are ways to make a Star Wars movie without rehashing A New Hope. The decision to do so indicates either a lack of creativity, or fanboyism.
Well, of course it's fanboyism. One of the biggest Star Wars fanboys in the world made the film. The point of the film is to get the fans back on board the bandwagon, so it had to have a lot of it in there. I don't see this as a bad thing.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 10:59 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I just believe there are ways to make a Star Wars movie without rehashing A New Hope. The decision to do so indicates either a lack of creativity, or fanboyism.
I'm just going to pop in here to say a few things about this statement. I've gone on record in other threads knowing that TFA is pretty good/above average, but it has a few huge missteps. I still liked it a lot. As much as I don't like them rehashing ANH, there is a point to this that goes quite a bit deeper than a lack of creativity, and the negative connotation of fanboyism.
Because, yeah, JJ is a fanboy, he's not really shy about that, but to make something like a new Star Wars after both one of the great trilogies of all time AND after the spectacular failure of the prequels is a tough task. Was it a safe play to remake ANH? Probably, but that's ok when you want to create a new mythology to build from.
Who was Edgar Allan Poe but a fanboy of Washington Irving and Charles Dickens? Hemingway was a massive Twain fanboy and directly borrowed language. He was also a big fan of Stephen Crane. Lucas did nothing but adapt a ton of stuff from Kurosawa (Hidden Fortress and Yojimbo obviously).
Rather than a lack of creativity (which we know Abrams has some really good ideas), or even fanobyism which is ok. you have to ask yourself, how do you bring the excitement and feeling to a massively diverse popular conscious, while opening up a new story? Playing on already existing emotions is an OK thing to do, seeing as art is looking for a particular effect.
You can debate whether or not it was the RIGHT call, but I think it was very much calculated, and does not concern creativity or fanboyism.
Carry on.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 11:03 am to Freauxzen
This thread wasnt about TFA being a perfect movie. There are legitimate criticisms.
But as I stated in the OP, if you walked out of that movie thinking it sucked there is something wrong with you. It was a pleasure to watch.
But as I stated in the OP, if you walked out of that movie thinking it sucked there is something wrong with you. It was a pleasure to watch.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 11:08 am to Cosmo
Anyone who hates or seriously dislikes TFA probably masterbates on Chat Roulette.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 11:10 am to NIH
Or masturbates to Paige posts
Posted on 12/27/15 at 11:18 am to OMLandshark
This is how I view them and I grew up watching them as a child (37 now). I'm a fan of the universe but the movies have serious issues with them. It started with Jedi and the silly Ewoks and continues with VII which brings back most plot points from previous movies. I'll still watch them and enjoy them, but I would like to see the full potential of this universe, not just something to sell merchandise.
quote:
1) The Empire Strikes Back- 5 stars
2) Star Wars- 4 stars
3) The Force Awakens- 3 stars
3) Return of the Jedi- 3 stars
3) Revenge of the Sith- 3 stars
6) The Phantom Menace- 1.5 stars
7) Attack of the Clones- .5 stars
Posted on 12/27/15 at 11:24 am to Cosmo
I enjoyed TFA but the constant plot holes were a bit distracting.
1. Even though Kylo Ren is a whiny emo, he is a Force user (demonstrated several times) and yet has a hard time fighting the fricking janitor.
2. There's an entire planet of stormtroopers but for some reason only one is assigned to guard the most important prisoner. One who has already demonstrated she has at least some Force ability.
3. Han Solo thinks the cantina is potentially a really dangerous place filled with creatures of questionable character, but the owner leaves Luke Skywalker's lightsaber in the basement in an unlocked container.
4. Captain Phasma, supposedly a senior stormtrooper dedicated to the First Order, simply throws up her hands and brings down the shields when asked without much of a fight.
I could go on.
ETA:
5. The Millenium Falcon is a fully functional spacecraft that is armed well enough that a couple of inexperienced people can fight off several TIE fighters. Yet up until that time everyone thought it was a rusting junkheap.
6. The First Order transforms an entire planet into an even bigger Death Star that can destroy multiple planets at the touch of a button without attracting the attention of the Galactic Republic.
1. Even though Kylo Ren is a whiny emo, he is a Force user (demonstrated several times) and yet has a hard time fighting the fricking janitor.
2. There's an entire planet of stormtroopers but for some reason only one is assigned to guard the most important prisoner. One who has already demonstrated she has at least some Force ability.
3. Han Solo thinks the cantina is potentially a really dangerous place filled with creatures of questionable character, but the owner leaves Luke Skywalker's lightsaber in the basement in an unlocked container.
4. Captain Phasma, supposedly a senior stormtrooper dedicated to the First Order, simply throws up her hands and brings down the shields when asked without much of a fight.
I could go on.
ETA:
5. The Millenium Falcon is a fully functional spacecraft that is armed well enough that a couple of inexperienced people can fight off several TIE fighters. Yet up until that time everyone thought it was a rusting junkheap.
6. The First Order transforms an entire planet into an even bigger Death Star that can destroy multiple planets at the touch of a button without attracting the attention of the Galactic Republic.
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 11:40 am
Posted on 12/27/15 at 11:35 am to foshizzle
Only I disagree with is 1. Kylo had just been hit by Chewie's bowcaster after a movie full sight gags.
There were mcguffins aplenty.
There were mcguffins aplenty.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 11:44 am to Cosmo
quote:
It was a pleasure to watch.
A mild pleasure at best. Nothing new and plenty of wrong.
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