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re: Why is there a difference in reaction to sports brawls?
Posted on 12/12/11 at 1:00 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Posted on 12/12/11 at 1:00 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Because fighting is accepted in hockey. It's part of the game.
That doesn't really answer the OP's question.
That's like saying "Fighting in hockey is acceptable because it's acceptable."
1
Posted on 12/12/11 at 2:01 pm to CFBFAN1121
The difference in a hockey fight and basketball fight are:
A fight in basketball is usually the end result of hard physical play that may have gone just a bit too far, or some trash talking that some ego maniac can't handle and just goes ape shite. Usually two guys are jawing at each other, and they may get a shove in. By that time team mates and/or refs come in and break it up. of course the fight ONLY breaks out when another team mate comes out of no where and clocks some dude in the face. Then all hell breaks lose.
In hockey, a fight breaks out because one player is defending another. If someone injures your teammate, said player becomes public enemy number 1. It's an unwritten law that if you injure someone in the game of hockey, you can expect retribution.
There is nothing in the basketball world that says if you commit a foul you can expect to be sucker punched in the face.
The same thing applies in baseball. It's an unspoken rule that if the opposing pitcher hits a player in what is deemed "on purpose" usually after giving up a big hit/HR. The responsiblity falls on YOUR pitcher to render a warning shot(that being beaning the opposing batter, or simply sending some chin music his way).
In the end, a basketball fight is frowned upon in my opinion because it is viewed as a rather civil sport. A baseball fight and basketball fight are handled in the same manor. They are both frowned upon and suspensions are USUALLY handled in the same manner.
A fight in basketball is usually the end result of hard physical play that may have gone just a bit too far, or some trash talking that some ego maniac can't handle and just goes ape shite. Usually two guys are jawing at each other, and they may get a shove in. By that time team mates and/or refs come in and break it up. of course the fight ONLY breaks out when another team mate comes out of no where and clocks some dude in the face. Then all hell breaks lose.
In hockey, a fight breaks out because one player is defending another. If someone injures your teammate, said player becomes public enemy number 1. It's an unwritten law that if you injure someone in the game of hockey, you can expect retribution.
There is nothing in the basketball world that says if you commit a foul you can expect to be sucker punched in the face.
The same thing applies in baseball. It's an unspoken rule that if the opposing pitcher hits a player in what is deemed "on purpose" usually after giving up a big hit/HR. The responsiblity falls on YOUR pitcher to render a warning shot(that being beaning the opposing batter, or simply sending some chin music his way).
In the end, a basketball fight is frowned upon in my opinion because it is viewed as a rather civil sport. A baseball fight and basketball fight are handled in the same manor. They are both frowned upon and suspensions are USUALLY handled in the same manner.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 2:44 pm to CFBFAN1121
quote:
Well help me understand almighty sports fan on why in hockey, it's perfectly ok for players to punch each other faces in but when the same exact thing happens in CBB , it's not ok.
Hockey is a thug sport so folks don't expect any better of those uneducated goons. Basketball, on the other hand, is supposed to be a little bit more respectable.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 3:03 pm to trackfan
I likened the Xavier-Cincy brawl to the disrespect that Petrino showed LSU, CLM and the Tiger Nation. Where is the leadership in all of this?
Posted on 12/12/11 at 3:18 pm to Bandits
Damn! White folk can't even beat the shite out of each other without brothers being jealous.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 3:56 pm to LordSaintly
quote:
That doesn't really answer the OP's question. That's like saying "Fighting in hockey is acceptable because it's acceptable."
Actually it does answer the fisherman's question.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 5:04 pm to USAF Hart
Alot of this. Hockey and to a lesser extent baseball are just more barbaric sports where there is an unwritten rule about when and how fights should take place. In basketball this isn't so and when fights take place it is generally just about rage and more closely simulates a real fight. A fight on a basketball court is complete chaos, a hockey fight looks like it might have been choreographed.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 5:16 pm to Ryno_Kill
quote:
Damn! White folk can't even beat the shite out of each other without brothers being jealous.
Can you imagine what a NHL Hockey team would have done to the gangstas from Cin/Xavier in a fight? Now thats one fight I would support and love to watch!
Posted on 12/12/11 at 5:26 pm to USAF Hart
quote:
A fight in basketball is usually the end result of hard physical play that may have gone just a bit too far, or some trash talking that some ego maniac can't handle and just goes ape shite. Usually two guys are jawing at each other, and they may get a shove in. By that time team mates and/or refs come in and break it up. of course the fight ONLY breaks out when another team mate comes out of no where and clocks some dude in the face. Then all hell breaks lose.
In hockey, a fight breaks out because one player is defending another. If someone injures your teammate, said player becomes public enemy number 1. It's an unwritten law that if you injure someone in the game of hockey, you can expect retribution.
There is nothing in the basketball world that says if you commit a foul you can expect to be sucker punched in the face.
The same thing applies in baseball. It's an unspoken rule that if the opposing pitcher hits a player in what is deemed "on purpose" usually after giving up a big hit/HR. The responsiblity falls on YOUR pitcher to render a warning shot(that being beaning the opposing batter, or simply sending some chin music his way).
In the end, a basketball fight is frowned upon in my opinion because it is viewed as a rather civil sport. A baseball fight and basketball fight are handled in the same manor. They are both frowned upon and suspensions are USUALLY handled in the same manner.
OK
Posted on 12/12/11 at 5:31 pm to CFBFAN1121
Because hockey is part team sport and part boxing and the NBA and college basketball have tried to drive fighting out of the sport.
In cases where it is just a one on one hockey fight between two guys willing to fight? I think that is part of the sport and not really a sign of overt racism by the crowd (for them to think it is ok)
There is no physical barrier between the crowd and the guys fighting if you see two basketball players suddenly start pounding each other. I'd be worried for my wife or kids if I'm sitting in the front row and a basketball fight breaks out between two strong but clumsy guys who weigh 240 pounds and are 6'6".
Now in cases where you have benches clear in either sport that is a brawl and the perceptions of one group being thugs or gangsters are mostly racial perceptions rather than something more concrete IMO (yes, we're all a bit racist).
Having said that - it is hardly helping anything when a basketball player makes reference to being gangster or zipping someone up (like zipping them into a body bag) as a metaphor for winning a fight.
So in the Cincy/Xavier fight IMO those players invited special criticism because they talked about being gangsters rather than just talking about the fight being something that got out of control and saying it was a mistake.
In cases where it is just a one on one hockey fight between two guys willing to fight? I think that is part of the sport and not really a sign of overt racism by the crowd (for them to think it is ok)
There is no physical barrier between the crowd and the guys fighting if you see two basketball players suddenly start pounding each other. I'd be worried for my wife or kids if I'm sitting in the front row and a basketball fight breaks out between two strong but clumsy guys who weigh 240 pounds and are 6'6".
Now in cases where you have benches clear in either sport that is a brawl and the perceptions of one group being thugs or gangsters are mostly racial perceptions rather than something more concrete IMO (yes, we're all a bit racist).
Having said that - it is hardly helping anything when a basketball player makes reference to being gangster or zipping someone up (like zipping them into a body bag) as a metaphor for winning a fight.
So in the Cincy/Xavier fight IMO those players invited special criticism because they talked about being gangsters rather than just talking about the fight being something that got out of control and saying it was a mistake.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 5:38 pm to molsusports
Why is hitting/tackling allowed in football and not basketball? If I go up and straight up tackle a guy in football, I'm doing my job, but in basketball, I'll get suspended.
It's different sports that have different rules/traditions.
It's different sports that have different rules/traditions.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 5:41 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
Why is hitting/tackling allowed in football and not basketball? If I go up and straight up tackle a guy in football, I'm doing my job, but in basketball, I'll get suspended.
It's different sports that have different rules/traditions.
NO ITS CUZ THE WHITEYS ARE ALLOWED TO AND THE DARKIES ARENT DUH
Posted on 12/12/11 at 6:22 pm to geauxtigs99
quote:
4 yr apr average
MBK 945
M Hockey 979
LINK
I was talking about the NHL, not NCAA hockey.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 6:40 pm to CFBFAN1121
quote:
The funniest was "it's ok for the hockey players to fight because it's their "culture". Well after the game, the BBall players pretty much said it was their "culture" to fight. But that wasn't valid excuse for them to fight.
No, you idiot. That is not a parallel. He was talking about the culture of the sport being played. That is relevant. Whatever thug culture they think they come from outside of the sport is not relevant.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 6:45 pm to CFBFAN1121
I hate to be that guy but there were black people involved.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 6:50 pm to The Boat
Here's a great hockey fight that was considered one of the best fights last season (and, yes, involved a black guy).
LINK
See the difference between this and the basketball fight. It's one on one and you fight only when the other guy drops his gloves. There's honor in the fight, and a lot of unwritten rules (though Benn violates one by keeping his helmet on).
LINK
See the difference between this and the basketball fight. It's one on one and you fight only when the other guy drops his gloves. There's honor in the fight, and a lot of unwritten rules (though Benn violates one by keeping his helmet on).
Posted on 12/12/11 at 7:17 pm to Baloo
quote:
See the difference between this and the basketball fight. It's one on one and you fight only when the other guy drops his gloves. There's honor in the fight, and a lot of unwritten rules (though Benn violates one by keeping his helmet on).
I think you're missing my point. It just isnt about Hockey, baseball is another example and I'm talking about the reaction from America.
I've seen tons of all out, bench clearing brawls in Baseball. Not once have I've seen America outraged over the brawl like America is now over the Cincy/Xavier brawl.
Like another poster said, when there's a brawl in a sport that is predominantly white, there's no outrage from America. When there is a brawl in a sport that is predominantly black, there's outrage from America with district attorneys contemplating pressing charges.
Nobody can dispute this and nobody has in this thread. All I've seen is rationalizations on why it's ok to be outraged over BBALL players brawling and not be outraged over brawls in other sports.
I just think it's a tad bit hypocritical to be outraged over the bball players brawling but be perfectly ok when players from other sports brawling.
Posted on 12/12/11 at 7:27 pm to CFBFAN1121
"You know what, you know what I noticed? Nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying. If tomorrow I tell the press that like a gang banger, will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it’s all, part of the plan. But when I say that one, little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!"
Posted on 12/12/11 at 7:44 pm to CFBFAN1121
quote:
I think you're missing my point. It just isnt about Hockey, baseball is another example and I'm talking about the reaction from America.
And I'm refuting your point. You brought up hockey, not me. I'm showing you a hockey fight so we can make an honest comparison, and not just any hockey fight - the most talked about hockey fight of last season. If you think that fight was anything like the UC/XU fight, then I don't know what to tell you. It also, not coincedentally, involved a black guy, so your tangential point about our reaction being based on racism is also a fallacy. There's a blac guy fighting in this video.
quote:
I've seen tons of all out, bench clearing brawls in Baseball. Not once have I've seen America outraged over the brawl like America is now over the Cincy/Xavier brawl.
Then you must be very young. This is not much of a reaction, though it was a pretty ugly brawl. Most baseball brawls involve the benches clearing and then people pushing each other to no effect for 20 minutes. They aren't that violent, as a rule. Which is also quite different from this weekend's fight.
quote:
Like another poster said, when there's a brawl in a sport that is predominantly white, there's no outrage from America. When there is a brawl in a sport that is predominantly black, there's outrage from America with district attorneys contemplating pressing charges.
I think you're reaching. I showed you a hockey fight and why people don't get outraged. It had nothing to do with skin tone, especially as one of the fighters was black (though Canadian). It has to do with the fact that hockey does not have bench clearing brawls, and the fights are one-on-one and not all that violent. It's mainly tugging and pulling. You're making a false equivalency.
And a lot of the outrage is coming from the coaches themselves. UC's coach was super pissed right after. I think a lot of also has to do with immediacy -- people are close to a basketball court like in no other sport, and players wear minimal equipment. A brawl seems more immediate. But also, and that's a key, it was a real brawl. Hockey fights are not remotely like this. I can show you a lot more, but I chose a pretty violent one, and it was nothing like the UC/XU game.
quote:
Nobody can dispute this and nobody has in this thread. All I've seen is rationalizations on why it's ok to be outraged over BBALL players brawling and not be outraged over brawls in other sports.
I can dispute it and am disputing it. All you see are people showing you the wide chasm in behavior. A hockey fight is specifically part of the rules, so ginning up outrage for it is absurd. You're making an argument based upon a fallacy. I'm also not really outraged by the fight other than kicking a guy while he was down, which was pretty low.
But there's been plenty of baseball brawls that also get people worked up for a day or two and are promptly forgot about. The UC/XU brawl touched a nerve not because it involved black people, but because it was especially violent.
quote:
I just think it's a tad bit hypocritical to be outraged over the bball players brawling but be perfectly ok when players from other sports brawling.
I never said it was okay for baseball players to brawl. And, as I've pointed out, hockey players don't brawl. There's only been something like one benches clearing brawl in the last two decades in the NHL. And baseball brawls tend to be a lot of pushing and shoving and nothing else, like most basketball brawls - which also go uncommented on.
If you're going to compare something to other sports, you have to be prepared for people to actually make the comparison. It's not "missing the point", it's showing you that your point isn't as rock solid as you think it is.
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