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re: Who was the better pitcher: Nolan Ryan vs Pedro Martinez
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:11 pm to SwaggerCopter
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:11 pm to SwaggerCopter
quote:
Nolan Ryan is overrated.
I guess this guy that made a HUGE amount of money of his career is overrated. You think the GM's that signed him to those huge contracts didn't know what they were doing??? Sure Ryan has some flaws to his resume, BUT 7 no-hitters stand out. and NO player that has 7 no-hitters is overrated. Think about how hard it is to get just one???
2
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:13 pm to dukke v
quote:
Nolan Ryan has more strikeouts and no-hitters than any other pitcher in history. Despite never winning a Cy Young Award, he started more games than anyone except Cy Young. Though he played mostly for mediocre teams, his 324 wins are as many as contemporary Don Sutton, who pitched for four pennant winners and just missed a fifth. Yet Ryan’s dominance—his 5,714 strikeouts were 2,000 more than Sutton and 1,500 better than Steve Carlton, whom he once trailed in the all-time K race—puts The Ryan Express head and shoulders above almost any other pitcher since 1970.
His longevity—winning a strikeout crown and throwing a no-hitter while being the oldest player in the game at the age of 43—makes him the stuff of legend. And in one day in 1971, Ryan’s change of coasts became the best trade the California Angels ever made and the worst deal in New York Mets history. He may have walked more batters and thrown more wild pitches than anyone else in the game’s history, but that just proved he was human.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:17 pm to dukke v
Nolan Ryan is overrated. I love the look on casual baseball fans' faces when I inform them he never won a Cy Young. The guy was never the best in the league at any point in his career.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:20 pm to Patton
quote:
Nolan Ryan -
With a career average of 9.55 strikeouts per nine innings, he was one of only three pitchers to average a strikeout per inning.
He set a major league record by striking out 10 batters in a game 215 times, and an American League record in 1974 by striking out 19 batters in a 9-inning game.
In 1992, a year before his retirement, Ryan became the oldest pitcher in the major leagues to strike out more than 10 batters in a single game.
His six seasons of 300+ strikeouts and 15 seasons with 200+ strikeouts are still major league records.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:29 pm to SwaggerCopter
quote:
I love the look on casual baseball fans' faces when I inform them he never won a Cy Young
Well that LOOK was never on my face. I know he never won a Cy Young. So what.
quote:
The guy was never the best in the league at any point in his career.
Never said he was. But 7 no-hitters speak for themselves. I would take Pedro. I have said this already. I would also take Koufax over Pedro at their peaks..... Look it up.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:34 pm to Patton
quote:
Peter Gammons on a radio interview today with WFAN outta NYC said that there are 35 better right hand pitchers in MLB history than Nolan Ryan.
BaseballReference has Ryan rated 24th among ALL pitchers.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:35 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
A pitcher can still get only three outs an inning
False.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:39 pm to Patton
It's Pedro, and it's not really close.
Nolan Ryan probably isn't even a top 20 pitcher. Great strikeout pitcher, but walked a ton of guys.
He pitched for so long because he could house small families in his damn legs. May have had the strongest lower body in the history of pitchers
Nolan Ryan probably isn't even a top 20 pitcher. Great strikeout pitcher, but walked a ton of guys.
He pitched for so long because he could house small families in his damn legs. May have had the strongest lower body in the history of pitchers
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:18 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
Nolan Ryan -
With a career average of 9.55 strikeouts per nine innings, he was one of only three pitchers to average a strikeout per inning.
Want to know who one of the other two pitchers are?
Pedro
And his 10.0 K's per 9 innings laughs at Nolan's 9.55
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 8:23 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:19 pm to SPEEDY
Never said he didn't have a higher peak.
Watched him.
But this argument is about the definition of "best pitcher" overall - forever - long haul - and what that means in terms of value overall to an organization in the long run.
It's why it's called the Cy Young award.
Watched him.
But this argument is about the definition of "best pitcher" overall - forever - long haul - and what that means in terms of value overall to an organization in the long run.
It's why it's called the Cy Young award.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 7:21 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:27 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:interesting :)
Obviously, Pedro is better
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:31 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
A pitcher can still get only three outs an inning
False.
Feel free to nitpick
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:36 pm to Patton
In an era where pitchers go 6 innings and that is conditioned into the fans...
It's not surprising that longevity and consistency and power sustained for so long...
Is woefully undervalued as greatness.
If this thread is just about skill - then say, it's just about skill...and who can dominate for a few innings for 5-10 years.
It's not surprising that longevity and consistency and power sustained for so long...
Is woefully undervalued as greatness.
If this thread is just about skill - then say, it's just about skill...and who can dominate for a few innings for 5-10 years.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 7:37 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:47 pm to Zamoro10
quote:Explain why Pedro has a higher CAREER WAR than Ryan.
But this argument is about the definition of "best pitcher" overall - forever - long haul - and what that means in terms of value overall to an organization in the long run.
I expect a diatribe about how unbiased, objective advanced statistics are somehow biased against Ryan.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 7:49 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:56 pm to Louie T
Pedro is also significantly better in career adjusted pitching wins which normalizes career #s given ballpark & supporting offenses. Pedro was ranked 9th with 50.85... Ryan was ranked 60th with 23.40. Excerpt from the article outlining what the statistic is/does
quote:Pedro is much better than Ryan in career adjusted pitching runs. Pedro 9 with 485... Ryan ranked 69 with 216
Pitchers who logged a lot innings and/or had longevity should also get some positive adjustment. Even if they gave up slightly more than the average number of runs, piling up innings will have value. All of these factors were taken into account here.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 8:00 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:01 pm to Louie T
Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Kid Nichols, & Pete Alexander are both ranked top 10 in both statistics so spare me the longevity & innings pitched aren't weighted enough.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:05 pm to Louie T
Better question would he Pedro vs Maddux.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:07 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
Talking one game situation where both are at their best.
quote:
Then Pedro without a doubt.
Nolan pitched 7 no hitters. How many did Pedro throw? I think I'll take Nolan here.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:30 pm to dukke v
quote:
I would also take Koufax over Pedro at their peaks..... Look it up.
Pedro's peak >>> Koufax's peak
Look it up
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