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re: Who was the better pitcher: Nolan Ryan vs Pedro Martinez
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:31 pm to LasVegasTiger
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:31 pm to LasVegasTiger
quote:
Might of been smart for Nolan to come out of a few games, maybe his walks would of come down some.
Probably wasn't his choice either. Starters were expected to go the distance back then. Just the way the game was played.
0
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:34 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
Can't forget this:
Pedro flamed out in his most important game in his career.
Ryan and others went 9 innings.
Pedro couldn't last 8.
And for the rest of his career couldn't last 7.
quote:
Little left Martinez in and the Yankees tied the game with three runs in the eighth, and in the 11th, Boone's long drive off Tim Wakefield landed in the left field stands to beat the Red Sox, 6-5, and decided the seven-game American League Championship Series.
This era of protected superstars with great ERA's...hides the truth.
Jesus. Really?
Well,
Can't forget this one then:
Nolan Ryan flamed out in his most important game in his career.
Couldn't last 8 innings
1980 NLCS, Series tied up and the winner of the game goes to the World Series
Ryan takes the mound for the Astros
quote:
Houston took what seemed like a solid 5–2 lead in the seventh on an RBI single by Denny Walling, a wild pitch from Phillies reliever Larry Christenson, and a run-scoring triple by Art Howe. A three run deficit in the eighth inning against Nolan Ryan seemed insurmountable. But the Phillies would not die. Bill Virdon left Ryan in and the Phillies took the lead by scoring 5 runs in the Top of the eighth. The Phillies won the game 8-7 and the pennant, advancing to the World Series were they defeated the Kansas Royals
Ryan beasted on the mound that day, with a World Series trip on the line by giving up 6 Earned runs in 7 innings. But hey, he struck out 8, so WAR RYAN!!
And in Pedro's game, he was battling a roided out Roger Clemens and Mike Mussia, two pitchers that just happen to win a combined 654 games in their careers
Nolan was out pitched by some dude named Marty Bystrom
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:42 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
Nolan was out pitched by some dude named Marty Bystrom
Hey now, lets give Marty some credit. His hair alone won games.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:45 pm to Patton
How far has Nolan Ryan fallen in the eyes of baseball that now picking his amazing 27 year career is considered "idiotic" - over a far shorter but slightly higher career.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:59 pm to LasVegasTiger
quote:The word is dominant. Dominant, an adjective. Dominate is a verb - something someone does.
Boston Pedro was absolutely dominate.
I'm only calling this out because I've seen it misused ~10x today alone. People should know the difference.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:06 pm to VABuckeye
quote:McClain's ERA+ was only 154 that year... Pedro's was 291. ERA+ is the best all-encompassing statistic when trying to compare pitchers in different eras, leagues, and ballparks.
Denny McClain 1968
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:08 pm to Zamoro10
quote:Using handpicked adjectives doesn't make your argument any more valid. Hard stats say his peak was quite a bit more than "slightly higher".
How far has Nolan Ryan fallen in the eyes of baseball that now picking his amazing 27 year career is considered "idiotic" - over a far shorter but slightly higher career.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:15 pm to BigPapi21
Nolan Ryan, easily
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:16 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
The question was:
Who was the better pitcher.
Pedro. A million times, Pedro.
quote:
Ryan is the better pitcher because he did more, was greater more, lasted longer and provided more for your investment.
He did less, was far less greater, but yes... he did last longer. that part is true.
quote:
Being a better pitcher isn't about - your freak optimum years.
It's about your overall resume.
Yes, and Pedro's is better in almost every way. Ryan has got longevity on his side and not much else. Other than that, it all tilts in Pedro's favor.
quote:
Not just some great season highlights. That's bullshite...a lot of mediocre players in sports history have had wonderful awesome years.
Well, all great pitchers have had some awesome years, and Ryan never did. He never won the Cy Young, and was only close twice. And it's not like Pedro is Fidrych. He won five ERA titles and three Cy Youngs.
quote:
Ryan did it for the long haul and performed. That to me = the better pitcher.
Pedro pitched for 18 seasons. He wasn't some flash in the pan. I agree that longevity matters, but it's not ALL that matters. Ryan only pitched 46 more innings than Gaylord Perry. And Perry won a Cy Young. Perry had a lower career ERA as well and ERA+. So, would you say Perry is better than Ryan because he did it over the long haul?
Before you ask, I would. I think Nolan Ryan is the single most overrated athlete in any sport ever. If I wanted to actually prevent runs, I'd take Perry. He was a better pitcher, even with about 2000 less strikeouts. The Cult of Nolan is because he's a man who challenged every hitter. And that's real cool for a legend, and I like legends, but it's bad for actually winning ballgames.
Ryan struck people out. Perry prevented runs.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:19 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
Pedro's peak >>>>> Nolan's peak Easily
No contest. But if you want to talk about peaks lets compare Koufax and Pedro.
Over all Its hared to compare cause Ryan;s career was so much longer than Pedros. Its hard to argue 7 no-hitters. Put it this way. Game 7 of a playoff series??? Pedro.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:20 pm to Baloo
quote:
Before you ask, I would. I think Nolan Ryan is the single most overrated athlete in any sport ever.
Okay. That's a fair opinion.
But I don't understand why backing Ryan is suddenly a crazy opinion?
I think Pedro was incredibly dominant - for his period - and short frame...and yes, had a far greater peak.
But - dominance also means longevity.
Not just a peak.
I am truly surprised Ryan has fallen so low in people's opinions. He had a dominate arm for generations...Pedro had dominate "stuff" for a brief while.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 5:22 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:23 pm to Baloo
quote:
Before you ask, I would. I think Nolan Ryan is the single most overrated athlete in any sport ever
Whoa. Anna Kornikova says HOWDY............
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:28 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
I'm only calling this out because I've seen it misused ~10x today alone. People should know the difference.
Stop telling people about this! That, advise/advice and loose/lose show me who the idiots are!
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:28 pm to RedHawk
quote:
Wouldn't say without a doubt, since Nolan has 7 no nos and Pedro doesn't have one.
Nolan finished 2nd for the Cy Young once and 3rd twice. Best finishes her ever got. Pedro has three Cy Young's.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:29 pm to Zamoro10
We have vastly different definitions of a short peak. 7 straight super elite years (Ryan only had 1) with other elite/great/good seasons mixed in is hardly short. Justin Verlander's peak was short.
Your use of adjectives to make your argument is quite noble. I'll take a stab at that game and leave it as "I'll take Pedro easily, because Nolan's tiny uptick in longevity pales in comparison to the extraordinary monstrous difference in actual production between the two pitchers"
Your use of adjectives to make your argument is quite noble. I'll take a stab at that game and leave it as "I'll take Pedro easily, because Nolan's tiny uptick in longevity pales in comparison to the extraordinary monstrous difference in actual production between the two pitchers"
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 5:30 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:38 pm to Baloo
Peter Gammons on a radio interview today with WFAN outta NYC said that there are 35 better right hand pitchers in MLB history than Nolan Ryan.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 5:58 pm to Patton
quote:
Peter Gammons on a radio interview today with WFAN outta NYC said that there are 35 better right hand pitchers in MLB history than Nolan Ryan.
Wow. Peter Gammons has REALLY lost his shite.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:04 pm to dukke v
You're assuming he had it at one time.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:05 pm to Jwho77
I think Pedro is underrated in general and Nolan Ryan is overrated.
Pedro by a mile. Nolan Ryan is the Brett Favre of baseball. Played forever, really good, but not the perfect player.
Both Favre and Ryan hold great records, but they also hold the bad ones. Interceptions for Favre and walks for Ryan.
Pedro by a mile. Nolan Ryan is the Brett Favre of baseball. Played forever, really good, but not the perfect player.
Both Favre and Ryan hold great records, but they also hold the bad ones. Interceptions for Favre and walks for Ryan.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 6:06 pm to The Seaward
quote:
And that undersells it a bit when you consider that Ryan had more oppurtunites for strikeouts since he gave up more baserunners per inning, thus faced more batters per inning.
A pitcher can still get only three outs an inning
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