- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Tom Brady on developing a young QB in the NFL
Posted on 8/20/24 at 1:59 pm to Dairy Sanders
Posted on 8/20/24 at 1:59 pm to Dairy Sanders
quote:
Not really. More routes are added but most of these guys are only doing 1-2 reads
And in Brady’s time most of them were just handing off
0
Posted on 8/20/24 at 2:04 pm to AHM21
If doing all of the tings Brady said about making it complicated to get a better edge still gave you an edge the NFL would be doing it. It seems more likely that doing all that extra work wasn't exactly necessary. Only a handful of QBs could handle the work load and as it turns out you can get really good QB without things being super complicated.
Posted on 8/20/24 at 2:09 pm to Tshiz
quote:
magine what stroud could do with some actual development and years behind his athleticism.
stroud is a pocket passer and damn good one already. Why would the texans waste years of a rookie contract to "develop" him when they could build a good team around him and win? Not to mention give him less reps in practice since he isn't the starter
Manning got the majority of the snap every year at UT and started his rookie year, did he not "develop"?
This post was edited on 8/20/24 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 8/20/24 at 2:17 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
stroud is a pocket passer and damn good one already. Why would the texans waste years of a rookie contract to "develop" him when they could build a good team around him and win? Not to mention give him less reps in practice since he isn't the starter
Because that's how it worked, some of the time, in the olden days.
Posted on 8/20/24 at 2:20 pm to Dairy Sanders
quote:
Most high school coaches aren’t qualified to truly develop a passer so they just go with their best athlete and that’s who gets sent up.
that is way more true when dudes like Early Doucet or Russell Shepard were playing QB in high school.
For all its faults, 7 on 7 football has QB getting more work than ever.
Posted on 8/20/24 at 2:25 pm to Dizz
quote:
If doing all of the tings Brady said about making it complicated to get a better edge still gave you an edge the NFL would be doing it. It seems more likely that doing all that extra work wasn't exactly necessary. Only a handful of QBs could handle the work load and as it turns out you can get really good QB without things being super complicated.
If this worked, Pete Carmichael and Sean Payton would have had good offenses last year.
If you want just one "sign of the times", look at rates of using motion. Here are the 2023 numbers:
Who used motion the most?
Miami, SF, LAR, KC, GB, DET
Who used motion the least?
PHI, NO, NYJ, AZ, CAR, DEN
Which would you say is the better choice, given those lists?
Posted on 8/20/24 at 2:40 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
I don’t count those 4 as sitting, Burrow, Stroud, Wilson, P Manning just to name a few all started snap 1 and did just fine
Time will tell on Stroud.
Burrow was 3 months from his 24th birthday. He was going to start unless he was injured.
Wilson was a game manager his first few seasons in the NFL. He averaged 25 pass attempts per game his first two seasons, 28 his third, and 30 his 4th. He was also less than 3 months from his 24th birthday when he started.
Big Ben was third on the Steelers depth chart coming out of summer camp and started because of injuries to Batch and Maddox. He had 295 pass attempts his rookie season and 268 his second season. He was game managing while being carried by his defense and running game.
Manning has been out of the league for 9 years now, but he started for damn near 4 years in college and was very polished coming out. He was the guy who actually started 1. The franchise QB trend and 2. immediately starting your rookie QB.
So pretty much the only guys who start right away now are either guys who were 2 years older than typical rookies or started due to injury. Stroud is an outlier in today’s NFL and the jury is still out on him.
Posted on 8/20/24 at 2:57 pm to Dairy Sanders
And just to throw this out there, Brees and Rivers were both HOFers who sat their rookie seasons.
Only 4 Super Bowls in the 21st century have been won by QBs who immediately started as rookies:
Ben won two. He was a game manager his first few seasons in the league. He averaged 22 and 29 pass attempts per game in the two seasons they won a Super Bowl. They had the 3rd and 1st scoring defenses in those seasons.
Flacco won one. He was also an old rookie (4 months from 24). He was thoroughly mediocre that regular season but had the best 4 stretch game of his career in that playoff and probably one of the top 4 game stretches by any QB in history.
Wilson won one and I’ve already spoken to his limitations.
Unless you have an elite defense and running game, your QB needs to sit, especially if he isn’t at least 23 years and ~8 months old.
Only 4 Super Bowls in the 21st century have been won by QBs who immediately started as rookies:
Ben won two. He was a game manager his first few seasons in the league. He averaged 22 and 29 pass attempts per game in the two seasons they won a Super Bowl. They had the 3rd and 1st scoring defenses in those seasons.
Flacco won one. He was also an old rookie (4 months from 24). He was thoroughly mediocre that regular season but had the best 4 stretch game of his career in that playoff and probably one of the top 4 game stretches by any QB in history.
Wilson won one and I’ve already spoken to his limitations.
Unless you have an elite defense and running game, your QB needs to sit, especially if he isn’t at least 23 years and ~8 months old.
Posted on 8/20/24 at 8:02 pm to Dairy Sanders
All of your responses are moving the goalposts 
Wilson started right away but he was a “game manager”
There is no magic formula. sitting a guy a year is not a guarantee of success is the point that is eluding you or do you honestly think if only the Jets had let Sam Darnold sit he would have been a star?
Players that become stars at EVERY SINGLE POSITION tend to get better after their rookie year, some play right away some sparingly as rookies some don’t play at all.
Wilson started right away but he was a “game manager” There is no magic formula. sitting a guy a year is not a guarantee of success is the point that is eluding you or do you honestly think if only the Jets had let Sam Darnold sit he would have been a star?
Players that become stars at EVERY SINGLE POSITION tend to get better after their rookie year, some play right away some sparingly as rookies some don’t play at all.
Posted on 8/20/24 at 8:13 pm to Dairy Sanders
quote:
And just to throw this out there, Brees and Rivers were both HOFers who sat their rookie seasons.
Matt Schaub and Aaron Brooks did not start as rookies and are not HOF QB? Why is that?
quote:
Only 4 Super Bowls in the 21st century have been won by QBs who immediately started as rookies:
I guarantee to you there are way more than 4 QBs that did not start as rookies that also did not win a Super Bowl
Also using winning the SB as the metric is lazy and silly. Rivers who you mentioned did not make one. Cam Newton did not win one but did make it to one, was a league MVP and was a top QB for 7-8 years is yet another example of a player who started game 1 and had success. There is no magic formula.
ETA To your point about age, players at any position really that started 3+ years and are 23+ are better positioned to play right away, 21 yo that only played part 2 seasons will probably need more time to adjust
This post was edited on 8/20/24 at 8:19 pm
Posted on 8/20/24 at 10:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Guys who can play off script like Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, Purdy, etc. give you an option between the play and throwing it away that's a huge edge. Offenses today embrace this, while they thought it was a negative in the past.
Agreed that it is a weapon to be able to play off script. However, it does become a negative when a QB constantly goes off script first instead of as a necessity and leaves a clean pocket or runs when he could’ve hit a 25+ yard pass. Think Baker Mayfield in the end of his browns tenure. He got better, but he was the poster child for immediately trying to go off script when it wasn’t necessary.
Posted on 8/20/24 at 10:36 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Almost never. And look how many nfl teams have fricked up recently thinking they could recreate that.
Not disputing, but what examples?
Trey Lance? My theory is the media bullied the 49ers into that pick.
Anthony Richardson? Jury is still out.
Will Levi’s? Showed some promise and jury is still out.
Malik Willis? Maybe but he was a third rounder
Posted on 8/20/24 at 11:42 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
All of your responses are moving the goalposts Wilson started right away but he was a “game manager”
I’m moving goalposts I’m providing evidence and context.
quote:
There is no magic formula. sitting a guy a year is not a guarantee of success is the point that is eluding you or do you honestly think if only the Jets had let Sam Darnold sit he would have been a star?
No one said it was a guarantee of success, but it clearly has the higher percentage of success.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 4:55 pm to Moustache
quote:
Malik Willis
This board had a collective orgasm over him. Dude was never good.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 6:47 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
There are 2 formulas that work in the nfl.
1. Get a hall of fame qb , pay him the money and let him carry the team.
2. Hit on a young qb in the draft and surround him with good veterans while he’s on his rookie contract.
Everybody else is overpaying a mediocre qb while losing, rebuilding ,or barely making playoffs.
When is the last time someone went against the norm and won? Nick Foles w/ Eagles?
This post was edited on 8/21/24 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 8/21/24 at 7:40 pm to AHM21
he's right.
plus, the offensive line play is dog shite.
the CBA agreed upon won't change either.
plus, the offensive line play is dog shite.
the CBA agreed upon won't change either.
Posted on 8/21/24 at 8:01 pm to AHM21
Page 4 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News