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re: The ESPN announcers just said Andruw Jones was the best outfielder
Posted on 9/13/12 at 1:35 am to motorbreath
Posted on 9/13/12 at 1:35 am to motorbreath
Can we just start this over?
Is there zero possible validity to this in your opinion (once again, it's an opinion)
Ichiro has led the league in range factor/game more times than Jones has.
His career range factor/game is higher than Jones'.
His career fielding % is higher (even though I know that can be a flawed stat).
Once again I'm not saying for sure he's better. Does he not have a case for being close to or on the same level though?
quote:
Ichiro has been just as good a fielder
Is there zero possible validity to this in your opinion (once again, it's an opinion)
Ichiro has led the league in range factor/game more times than Jones has.
His career range factor/game is higher than Jones'.
His career fielding % is higher (even though I know that can be a flawed stat).
Once again I'm not saying for sure he's better. Does he not have a case for being close to or on the same level though?
This post was edited on 9/13/12 at 1:41 am
2
Posted on 9/13/12 at 1:45 am to LSUSOBEAST1
No. He played a different position. Centerfield is MUCH more demanding, physically. Especially if you play it year in and year out. You have way more ground to cover and you dive a lot more.
Now ichiro is a stellar fielder but not on andruws level. Tier 1 has guys like jones, mays, Griffey. tier 2 would have guys like ichiro, Edmonds, Hunter and others.
Now ichiro is a stellar fielder but not on andruws level. Tier 1 has guys like jones, mays, Griffey. tier 2 would have guys like ichiro, Edmonds, Hunter and others.
Posted on 9/13/12 at 1:53 am to motorbreath
He played CF for one season and played it extremely well. 2.90 range factor/game. He has shown the ability to go from RF to CF back to RF effortlessly. His consistency is also pretty remarkable.
You've got a point that it's hard to argue the two since they played different positions. Ichiro's arm strength and his ability to cover ground can't be understated though.
From what I've watched from Ichiro, he's in my tier 1 at RF right behind Clemente (my favorite player of all time). Not sure where he'd be in the OF.
You've got a point that it's hard to argue the two since they played different positions. Ichiro's arm strength and his ability to cover ground can't be understated though.
From what I've watched from Ichiro, he's in my tier 1 at RF right behind Clemente (my favorite player of all time). Not sure where he'd be in the OF.
This post was edited on 9/13/12 at 2:03 am
Posted on 9/13/12 at 2:23 am to motorbreath
Not to split hairs, but if you're putting Torii Hunter, Ichiro and Jim Edmonds in "tier two" you've got some pretty demanding tiers
Posted on 9/13/12 at 2:43 am to LSU Red24
I've watched pretty much every game Griffey (when he was in Seattle) and Ichiro have ever played. Griffey was much better defensively than Ichiro. I honestly think Ichiro is pretty overrated and have taken that stance for a long time. And by overrated I mean, he's still consistently a great outfielder, but not one of the all-time greats or elite. Franklin Gutierrez (when healthy) is a much better defensive outfielder than Ichiro ever has been.
Posted on 9/13/12 at 2:59 am to TDawg1313
Fair enough.
Posted on 9/13/12 at 8:56 am to LSUSOBEAST1
The discussion for best defensive outfielder of that generation can only reasonably go two places:
If we're talking strictly defense (which I think the commentators were doing in this context) the conversation starts and ends with Andruw Jones (ridiculous name spelling failure notwithstanding).
If we're talking greatest all-around baseball player who played an outfield position, that discussion starts and ends with Barry Bonds.
Oh, and that anyone in here mentioned Edmonds is utterly ridiculous. Just because he made highlight reel catches on balls that Jones made look like routine plays, doesn't mean he was a great centerfielder.
If we're talking strictly defense (which I think the commentators were doing in this context) the conversation starts and ends with Andruw Jones (ridiculous name spelling failure notwithstanding).
If we're talking greatest all-around baseball player who played an outfield position, that discussion starts and ends with Barry Bonds.
Oh, and that anyone in here mentioned Edmonds is utterly ridiculous. Just because he made highlight reel catches on balls that Jones made look like routine plays, doesn't mean he was a great centerfielder.
Posted on 9/13/12 at 11:43 pm to Jamohn
quote:
If we're talking greatest all-around baseball player who played an outfield position, that discussion starts and ends with Barry Bonds.
I don't even know where to begin
Posted on 9/13/12 at 11:53 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Kenny Lofton was better than jones defensively .
Posted on 9/14/12 at 1:38 am to lowspark12
quote:
most overrated player in my lifetime.
frick you
Posted on 9/14/12 at 7:25 pm to Jamohn
quote:
ridiculous name spelling failure notwithstanding
That Maybe true for Americans but Andruw is from curaçao and that's how it's commonly spelled there.
Posted on 9/14/12 at 7:31 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
his fielding % (.998) for that single season was higher than any single one of Andruw Jones' fielding %s in his career
Did you really use fielding % by an OF as an argument?
quote:
played CF for one season and played it extremely well. 2.90 range factor/game
Again another completely useless stat when measuring how good a fielder is. If player A gets 3 fly balls hit directly at him in a game, his range factor is 3. If player B robs 2 HRs in one game and has no other balls hit at him, his range factor is 2. Over a season it balances out more than that, but it is far more dependent on the pitching staff than fielding ability for an outfielder.
Posted on 9/14/12 at 7:42 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Is there zero possible validity to this in your opinion (once again, it's an opinion)
Ichiro has led the league in range factor/game more times than Jones has.
His career range factor/game is higher than Jones'.
His career fielding % is higher (even though I know that can be a flawed stat).
Once again I'm not saying for sure he's better. Does he not have a case for being close to or on the same level though?
1. RF/game is a dumb stat look at RF/9 innings
2. Why are you looking at career numbers? No one is saying Andruw Jones is the greatest fielder right now, compare their numbers in their prime
3.They play different positions and Jones plays the more important and more difficult position
Posted on 9/14/12 at 7:45 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Tons of Bravetards on the MSB. Good luck getting a legit answer as seen by page 1 of the thread.
Posted on 9/14/12 at 7:54 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Also, just took a peak at some stats. Ichiro played 1 real full season at CF (155 games), and his fielding % (.998) for that single season was higher than any single one of Andruw Jones' fielding %s in his career. Ichiro had 1 error that season. Ridiculous.
at fielding percentage. If that was the number that deemed defensive greatness, Jeter would be the best defensive SS ever.
Posted on 9/14/12 at 9:15 pm to The Boat
quote:
Tons of Bravetards on the MSB. Good luck getting a legit answer as seen by page 1 of the thread.
And you are bias free right?
Posted on 9/14/12 at 9:40 pm to lowspark12
"most overrated player in my lifetime... dude couldn't be less clutch if he tried."
Oh he tried. I've never seen a player miss so many fastballs right down the middle of the plate.
Oh he tried. I've never seen a player miss so many fastballs right down the middle of the plate.
Posted on 9/14/12 at 9:59 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Best outfielder ever
this is a joke. he's not even close to the great ones.
Posted on 9/15/12 at 12:10 am to LSU GrandDad
Defensively, there's no doubt he was one of the best ever. That's all anyone is saying. Nobody thinks he is one of the best all-around OFers ever. That would be equally as stupid as saying he's not one of the best defensively.
Posted on 9/15/12 at 12:13 am to LSUSOBEAST1
Andruw was absolutely the best fielding OF of this generation. The guy was near perfect at his peak.
This post was edited on 9/15/12 at 12:14 am
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