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re: Report: Kyrie wants "very badly" to play for the Knicks
Posted on 7/27/17 at 3:39 pm to tiggerthetooth
Posted on 7/27/17 at 3:39 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:Obviously they would want to conserve energy so defense maximization may not be that valued in random regular season games, BUT when it is necessary, put Lebron on the better wing player and Carmelo on the lesser one.
Who guards the 2 and 3? Melo is atrocious at guarding 3s and he's only getting worse from here on out. I think its pretty obvious they would be extremely an slow lineup.
1
Posted on 7/27/17 at 3:43 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:Where are you getting that information?
Melo is atrocious at guarding 3s
Now maybe it was an aging or less effort, but according to basketball reference Carmelo only played 69% of his possessions as the SF last season and 91% the season before (and 2% at SG). His Box Defensive +/- was 2 points and his real defensive plus minus was a point better the season he played considerably more on the wing.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 3:55 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Kyrie never reaches that level without being on a top 2 team for the past 3 years. That finals win/shot skyrocketed him. That doesn't happen in New York playing next to corspes as James Dolan smiles from above
That's already happened though and will carry over to New York.
quote:
You think Kyrie is making 12 mill in advertising if he's winning 30 games a year in New York the last few years?
He wouldn't have built up stardom, no. But we're looking at the current situation which involves him already having stardom and then moving to New York.
quote:
There are plenty of big stars around the league on bad teams that don't get any exposure because they aren't on contenders
Pretty irrelevant to what we're talking about.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:02 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
, BUT when it is necessary, put Lebron on the better wing player and Carmelo on the lesser one.
The Cavs would get steam rolled. I hope they do it.
Think of carmelo trying to defend draymond green or klay Thompson.
Are you looking for an even more embarrassing finals sweep?
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:04 pm to Weagle25
quote:
That's already happened though and will carry over to New York.
And will quickly dissipate as the Knicks finish 11th in the East every year.
quote:
He wouldn't have built up stardom, no. But we're looking at the current situation which involves him already having stardom and then moving to New York.
So you admit he got his stardom from playing on good teams irregardless of where that team was located, but you won't acknowledge that playing on a bad team will hinder his stardom irregardless of what city it's in
Carmelo's play really hasn't dipped all that much from his Denver days, the only difference is he gets no exposure playing for bad team instead of competing in the playoffs for the Nuggets. The difference is no one talks about the Knicks after the trade deadline because they are a shitty run organization that is never in contention despite having some talent like Kristaps. Is a black hole for your career. Being in New York is not the impact you think it is. That impact comes from playing on good teams and being in the conversation
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:16 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:I think Carmelo on Green is a more favorable defensive matchup for the Cavs than Kyrie on Steph.
Think of carmelo trying to defend draymond green or klay Thompson.
quote:If it's essentially a swap of Carmelo for Kyrie, the Cavs are probably worse. But I think it would be more of a result of worse offense than defense.
Are you looking for an even more embarrassing finals sweep?
I think you're underestimating just how poorly Kyrie played defensively.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:22 pm to Weagle25
quote:I think people overestimate the $ value of the market. It's a star driven league, and the stars + winning drive interest. Lebron/Kyrie in Cleveland and Durant in OKC and the Bay Area were among the top in the league.
He wouldn't have built up stardom, no. But we're looking at the current situation which involves him already having stardom and then moving to New York.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:23 pm to tduecen
quote:
Kyrie, Love, Smith for Hardaway and Carmelo
Knicks win that trade big time.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:26 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
And will quickly dissipate as the Knicks finish 11th in the East every year.
Disagree.
quote:
So you admit he got his stardom from playing on good teams irregardless of where that team was located, but you won't acknowledge that playing on a bad team will hinder his stardom irregardless of what city it's in
Correct because becoming a star and maintaining stardom is two different things.
Kobe maintained his stardom throughout his career despite having two stretches where he was on terrible teams
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:28 pm to CocoLoco
quote:Yeah, not even close. 538's CARMELO projections have Love, Kyrie, and JR at 12.5 WARPs and Carmelo and Hardaway at 4.3.
Knicks win that trade big time.
And why would Love be traded anyways? Kyrie may want out, but you don't get rid of someone as good as Love too for a aging star and a bench player.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:32 pm to Weagle25
quote:Obviously his last 3 years they were terrible, and he was injured for the first of those. But the last season was his retirement season, so it was only really 1 season that they were terrible and he played significant minutes.
Kobe maintained his stardom throughout his career despite having two stretches where he was on terrible teams
What is the other stretch though? Post-Shaq, Pre-Pau? They made the playoffs in all but one of those seasons so they were still watchable.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:32 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Yeah, not even close. 538's CARMELO projections have Love, Kyrie, and JR at 12.5 WARPs and Carmelo and Hardaway at 4.3.
And why would Love be traded anyways? Kyrie may want out, but you don't get rid of someone as good as Love too for a aging star and a bench player.
More reasonable would be adding Porzingis to that trade.
Jr = Hardaway
Irving < Porzingis
Love > Melo
Makes sense
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:34 pm to htran90
quote:That is much better, and now the Cavs would get 10.1 WARPs. And Porzingis may even exceed that playing on a good team and with Lebron.
More reasonable would be adding Porzingis to that trade.
Jr = Hardaway
Irving < Porzingis
Love > Melo
Makes sense
I doubt it would happen, and I would still hate to lose Love.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:42 pm to Weagle25
quote:
Correct because becoming a star and maintaining stardom is two different things.
What about Melo? You said yourself he's not the same star level as he was before he got to New York
quote:
Kobe maintained his stardom throughout his career despite having two stretches where he was on terrible teams
1.) Kyrie ain't Kobe
2.) Kobe was on a contender for the vast majority of his career. His longest playoff swoon was at the twilight of his career when he was already cemented as an NBA legend. Kyrie is nowhere near that level yet and may never be.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:42 pm to Weagle25
I think you're overestimating Kyrie's, idk, marketability?
He's kinda shy and boring. He isn't some figure that demands your attention. He doesn't have many leadership qualities. And doesn't seem to care about being in the limelight.
He's a unique guy who wants to go about his business with being hassled by the media or driven teammates.
Melo on a championship team would be in a different atmosphere than Kyrie.
The attention Kyrie has gotten recently will wane...and pretty significantly IMO.
He's kinda shy and boring. He isn't some figure that demands your attention. He doesn't have many leadership qualities. And doesn't seem to care about being in the limelight.
He's a unique guy who wants to go about his business with being hassled by the media or driven teammates.
Melo on a championship team would be in a different atmosphere than Kyrie.
The attention Kyrie has gotten recently will wane...and pretty significantly IMO.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:46 pm to RedRifle
Well the Knicks don't have the best trade package for Kyrie so tough shite. I'd guess he ends up in Phoenix for Bledsoe and either Jackson or picks.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:46 pm to ReauxlTide222
People severely overrate cities like LA and NY when it comes to marketing the top guys. When you are a major sports star, ad agencies and other similar groups will find you wherever you are. Ad groups/endorsement companies aren't telling Kyrie to frickoff because he's in Cleveland
It can certainly be an advantage for lower tier players who are planning for their post playing career in media and similar paths like that, but the big guns don't have to move to NYC to get paid on endorsement deals
It can certainly be an advantage for lower tier players who are planning for their post playing career in media and similar paths like that, but the big guns don't have to move to NYC to get paid on endorsement deals
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:50 pm to wildtigercat93
The best NBA players transcend the market. Lebron is in Cleveland, KD had a shitload of endorsements in OKC etc.
Honestly playing with Lebron probably provides much more exposure than playing for a crappy Knicks or Lakers team if that's the concern
Honestly playing with Lebron probably provides much more exposure than playing for a crappy Knicks or Lakers team if that's the concern
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:51 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Melo on a championship team would be in a different atmosphere than Kyrie.
Cavs are no better with Melo. It does nothing to move the bar against GSW. If anything, it makes their lineup less potent because it removes a ball handler who can at times create off the dribble.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 4:59 pm to tiggerthetooth
They would still be a championship team/contender
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