re: Report: Kyrie wants "very badly" to play for the Knicks

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Probably because that's the exact point you made.

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It's not at all

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You bashed his reading comprehension but you're saying their levels are irrelevant to a point that specifically details how their level is relevant.

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Didn't say that.

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The Kobe argument was to establish that at some level you become immune to being at a bad team.

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Yes, but Kobe only had one losing season and one season he didn't make the playoffs until he was 35 years old. And by the time he reached that ONE bad season, he was in his 9th year, had 3 NBA championships, 3 First-Team All-NBA appearances, 2 Second-Team All-NBA appearances, and 1 Third-Team All NBA appearance.

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Obviously Kobe and Kyrie aren't on the same level. But you use the extreme to make the point. Then you have to establish at what level do you become immune. But that's pretty hard to define and I wasn't going to argue with him on that. It's just a difference of opinion.

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But it doesn't have to be an unknowable threshold. If we can acknowledge that the relationship exists, and is can be represented by a few characteristics (championships, all-nba, quality of the player, years in the league), then we can establish that the difference between Kobe and Kyrie is so great, that this built-in immunity is far lower for Kyrie.

And like I said, Kobe only played on one bad team, so he only had to be immune for that one season.

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The funny thing is y'all are shitting on my argument when he's already agreed to the main point. The only thing he disagrees with is the thing I was dropping because I don't have any proof for or against so it just comes down to opinion. There's no point in arguing something that's pure speculation.

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The issue was that you acknowledged the stance, and despite knowingly using an extreme in your argument, you disregarded the stance that you acknowledged.

You're right, Kyrie may be able to maintain popularity, despite being on a poor team because of the market, and Kobe was the extreme outlying example to highlight that possibility. But since we know it's an outlier, you can't disregard the important differences that likely made it the outlier. Not to mention, Kobe was on the same team that he built his popularity with. Kyrie also has that disadvantage.

In other words, all of the factors that allowed Kobe maintain his popularity, were far more in Kobe's favor than Kyrie. Therefore, Kyrie would be at a far greater risk of failing to maintain.

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He had more than one bad season in the context we're using. He had a stretch of 3. And then the stretch to end his career

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A stretch of 3? He was first team all-nba for three straight seasons until 2004, third team in 2005 in that SINGLE LOSING season, then he was again first team all nba for 8 straight seasons from 2006-2013.

It's odd to see you as a Kobe fan who consistently overrates his historical placement, is now criminally underrating his performance to support some illogical point.

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Then outline the threshold for me. Give me the players who were immune and those who were not and clearly demonstrate a threshold.

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What? I'm saying that it doesn't have to have a threshold at all. Like the vast majority of constructs, it's linear distributed. Even if it's non-linear, we can establish that difference is will have an impact on the probability that a non-linear threshold is met.

Either way you conceptualize it, Kyrie is far less likely to maintain his popularity as Kobe IF his team is bad.

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I didn't disregard anything. My stance was that at a certain point you become immune. I feel like Kyrie has reached that point but I can't clearly define when that point is

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That's the problem with your argument. You're acknowledging the importance of the concepts and the difference in the comparison, then decide that it's actually a non-linear threshold which can't be established, but conclude he's past the unestablished threshold anyways.

Maybe it is a threshold, and Kyrie has passed the it, but my point is that since we don't know either, we can at least conclude that whatever the probability it is, it's far lower than the Kobe outlier example.

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We don't know it's an outlier. We don't have enough stars that went through the situation we're talking about. Kobe is an extreme example but we don't know that's he's an outlier.

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An outlier is an outlier because it's an extreme data point.

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The funny thing is y'all are shitting on my argument

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In fairness, 3 or 4 people called out all the same flaws in your point.

At some point you have to question whether you delivered it correctly, I'd think.

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A stretch of 3? He was first team all-nba for three straight seasons until 2004, third team in 2005 in that SINGLE LOSING season, then he was again first team all nba for 8 straight seasons from 2006-2013.

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I don't know why you're bringing up individual performance when that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

You also must've missed where I said "in the context we're using" The Lakers we're the 11 seed. Then the 7th. Then the 7th. They never made it past the first round. That's three bad seasons in the context we're using. They weren't contenders at all those years.

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Either way you conceptualize it, Kyrie is far less likely to maintain his popularity as Kobe IF his team is bad.

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You're clearly are missing the point because I would agree with that statement and I clearly indicated that in my last post.

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That's the problem with your argument. You're acknowledging the importance of the concepts and the difference in the comparison, then decide that it's actually a non-linear threshold which can't be established, but conclude he's past the unestablished threshold anyways.

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Just because there's no clearly defined threshold doesn't mean I can't feel that he's above it. I don't why you think that. It's not like I'm saying I'm 1000% sure he's above it. I'm saying IMO I think he is above it.

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Maybe it is a threshold, and Kyrie has passed the it, but my point is that since we don't know either, we can at least conclude that whatever the probability it is, it's far lower than the Kobe outlier example.

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How many times do I have to agree that the chances of Kobe being above it are far greater than Kyrie?

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An outlier is an outlier because it's an extreme data point.

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You have to have more than two data points for something to be an outlier.

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I have considered it. But I can't be any clearer in the points that people are arguing.

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The few that responded seem to think the complete opposite, that it couldn't be any more contradictory.

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I can't help people read. That's up to them.

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Just close your eyes and hope for the best!!!

You also stated emphatically that you were not comparing the 2 and a couple of posts later said you were comparing the 2.

You were all over the place, I honestly had no clue what you were trying to argue.

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never said I was comparing the 2.

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Actually you did.

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Now Kyrie is going through a similar situation (if he actually goes to the Knicks). And I said I expect similar results to the Kobe situation.

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I don't understand how you can't comphrend that the only way these scenarios are similar are if you think that Kyrie=Kobe. you are arguing to completely contradictory things

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For some reason, you can't comprehend the threshold being any lower than where Kobe's status level is.

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Because you can't find an example of a lower tier superstar enduring the same situation and it not effecting them. You're the one that used Kobe as an example, so you are the one who set the bar that high, not me.

And we've already explained to you that kobe doesn't even fit that criteria so even if Kyrie was on kobes level then it still wouldn't be a good comparison.


You would think after 4-5 different posters pointed out your hypocrisy, you would figure it out, but apparently you're fine with living in your contradiction and somehow feel you're the only correct person in the world.

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Because you can't find an example of a lower tier superstar enduring the same situation and it not effecting them. You're the one that used Kobe as an example, so you are the one who set the bar that high, not me.

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You should still be able to comprehend the fact that it could be lower. I'm not trying to convince you that it is lower. I think it is but i can't prove it.

But just the fact that it could be lower destroys the idea that I was ever arguing Kobe = Kyrie which you repeated for some unknown fricking reason.

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And we've already explained to you that kobe doesn't even fit that criteria so even if Kyrie was on kobes level then it still wouldn't be a good comparison.

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Y'all had to use arse backwards logic to come up with him not fitting the criteria. He fits it.

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You would think after 4-5 different posters pointed out your hypocrisy, you would figure it out, but apparently you're fine with living in your contradiction and somehow feel you're the only correct person in the world.

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Not one person has pointed out hypocrisy yet. They attempted to but had to put words in my mouth to do it.

Your whole problem is you think it's absolutely impossible that threshold is anywhere below Kobe's level. Therefore you see statements as contradictory when they're not if you're open to the idea of it being lower. Which is what I've been telling you for at least 3 pages now. Quit being like shel and just jumping on other people backs thinking it proves your point. 3-4 idiots can come to the same conclusion and still be wrong.