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re: Most Overrated Player In NBA History
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:45 pm to Madking
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:45 pm to Madking
quote:
Shaqs feet were light years better than Embiids, his instinctive understanding of angles, positioning and timing is way better than Embiids and before his weight blew up he was by far the most athletic and instinctive 7-footer to ever play.
Now do shooting and passing
1
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:47 pm to Madking
quote:
You know there have been rules changes and they’ve effected perimeter scoring mostly but scoring and possession totals overall in a major way right?
Players like Lebron brought an eye for efficiency and efficient play that players like Kobe weren't smart enough to figure out, yes.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
Shaq was a very good passer. Not a Joker or Old Man Sabonis level, which would be elite but he was one level down from that. Again shooting is one skill, it doesn’t erase every other skill.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
Wrong
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:51 pm to shel311
quote:
I value better basketball player over anything when determining who is the better basketball player
If that’s the case, then LeBron is not in your top three or top five and Durant’s been better than him for 7 years.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:55 pm to Boodis Man
Overrated is a tough argument to make about any professional athlete. Definitely a top 10 player ever.
Would you call olympians overrated if they didn’t win the gold every time, sure hope not. Overrated is a lazy analysis of his career.
Would you call olympians overrated if they didn’t win the gold every time, sure hope not. Overrated is a lazy analysis of his career.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 1:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Cool. We're talking about basketball play, not athleticism or skill alone (although they both contribute to basketball play).
Correct and one of them played basketball well enough to win 3x in a row and then another 2x in a row. The second one after his athleticism faded. The other one won back to back when at his athletic peak and then once more. Kobe is better at winning basketball.
This post was edited on 5/23/23 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:01 pm to Boodis Man
Y'all have some absurd LeBron takes. Here are some hard facts for those of you hate the basketball player because you disagree with some of his hot takes:
- Most selections for All-NBA First Team (13). Kobe and Karl Malone are tied for second with 11 each.
- Most playoff wins all-time (182). Derek Fisher is second at 161. Other notables: Duncan 157, Kareem 154, Kobe 135, Magic, 128, Jordan 119, Russell 107, Curry 102, Bird 99, Wilt 88.
- Playoff win percentage of 64.5%. Other notables: Duncan 61.1%, Kareem, 65.0%, Kobe 61.4%, Magic 67.4%, Jordan, 66.5%, 64.8%, Curry 66.2%, Bird 60.4%, Wilt 55.0%.
- Most playoff series won at 42. Other notables: Kareem 37, Duncan 35, Kobe 33, Magic 32, Jordan 30, Russell 27, Bird 23, Steph 22.
- Tied for third most NBA Finals appearances (10). Other notables: Russell 12, Sam Jones 11, Kareem 10, Magic 9, Kobe 7, Jordan 6, Curry 6, Duncan 6. *Note: There were just eight teams in the NBA when Russell and Jones first appeared in the NBA Finals in 1957-58.
- Second most Finals MVPs (4). Jordan is first with 6. Other notables: Magic 3, Shaq 3, Duncan 3, Kareem 2, Bird 2, Kobe 2, Curry 1 (lol). Only LeBron and Jordan have been the Finals MVP for each of their championship winning teams. Curry has been the Finals MVP just once in his four championship runs.
- Most playoff point all-time (8023). Other notables: Jordan is second with 5987. Other notables: Kareem 5762, Kobe 5640, Shaq 5250, Duncan 5172, Curry 3966, Bird 3897, Wilt 3607, Russell 2673.
- Most regular season points all-time (38,652). Kareem is second with 38,387. Other notables: Kobe 36,928, Jordan 32,292, Wilt 31,419, Shaq 28,596, Duncan 26496, Bird 21791, Curry 21712.
- Most combined regular season and playoff points all-time (46, 675). Kareem is second with 44,149. Other notables: Kobe, 42,568, Jordan 38,279, Curry 25,678.
- Most consecutive games with 10+ points scored (1,173). This is an active streak. Jordan is second with 866.
- Second all-time playoff assists (2,023). Magic is first with 2,346. Other notables: Bird 1,062, Kobe 1,048, Jordan 1,022, Curry 912.
- Fourth all-time playoff rebounds (2,549). Russell is first with 4,104. Wilt is second with 3,913. Duncan is third at 2,859. Other notables: Shaq 2,508, Kareem 2,481, Bird 1,683, Magic 1,465, Jordan ,1,152, Curry 786.
- First all-time playoff steals (471). Other notables: Jordan 376, Magic 358, Kobe 310, Bird 296, Curry 223.
- 10th all-time playoff blocks (270). Duncan is first at 568. Kareem second at 476. Shaq fourth at 459. Other notables: Jordan 158, Curry 44.
And for the LeBron v. Curry guys (despite the fact that Curry's teams were always vastly superior aside from this season). Here are their head-to-head playoff stats across 28 games:
LeBron: 31.3 PPG, 10.9 RPG, 8.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 48.3% FG
Curry: 25.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 42.6% FG
- Most selections for All-NBA First Team (13). Kobe and Karl Malone are tied for second with 11 each.
- Most playoff wins all-time (182). Derek Fisher is second at 161. Other notables: Duncan 157, Kareem 154, Kobe 135, Magic, 128, Jordan 119, Russell 107, Curry 102, Bird 99, Wilt 88.
- Playoff win percentage of 64.5%. Other notables: Duncan 61.1%, Kareem, 65.0%, Kobe 61.4%, Magic 67.4%, Jordan, 66.5%, 64.8%, Curry 66.2%, Bird 60.4%, Wilt 55.0%.
- Most playoff series won at 42. Other notables: Kareem 37, Duncan 35, Kobe 33, Magic 32, Jordan 30, Russell 27, Bird 23, Steph 22.
- Tied for third most NBA Finals appearances (10). Other notables: Russell 12, Sam Jones 11, Kareem 10, Magic 9, Kobe 7, Jordan 6, Curry 6, Duncan 6. *Note: There were just eight teams in the NBA when Russell and Jones first appeared in the NBA Finals in 1957-58.
- Second most Finals MVPs (4). Jordan is first with 6. Other notables: Magic 3, Shaq 3, Duncan 3, Kareem 2, Bird 2, Kobe 2, Curry 1 (lol). Only LeBron and Jordan have been the Finals MVP for each of their championship winning teams. Curry has been the Finals MVP just once in his four championship runs.
- Most playoff point all-time (8023). Other notables: Jordan is second with 5987. Other notables: Kareem 5762, Kobe 5640, Shaq 5250, Duncan 5172, Curry 3966, Bird 3897, Wilt 3607, Russell 2673.
- Most regular season points all-time (38,652). Kareem is second with 38,387. Other notables: Kobe 36,928, Jordan 32,292, Wilt 31,419, Shaq 28,596, Duncan 26496, Bird 21791, Curry 21712.
- Most combined regular season and playoff points all-time (46, 675). Kareem is second with 44,149. Other notables: Kobe, 42,568, Jordan 38,279, Curry 25,678.
- Most consecutive games with 10+ points scored (1,173). This is an active streak. Jordan is second with 866.
- Second all-time playoff assists (2,023). Magic is first with 2,346. Other notables: Bird 1,062, Kobe 1,048, Jordan 1,022, Curry 912.
- Fourth all-time playoff rebounds (2,549). Russell is first with 4,104. Wilt is second with 3,913. Duncan is third at 2,859. Other notables: Shaq 2,508, Kareem 2,481, Bird 1,683, Magic 1,465, Jordan ,1,152, Curry 786.
- First all-time playoff steals (471). Other notables: Jordan 376, Magic 358, Kobe 310, Bird 296, Curry 223.
- 10th all-time playoff blocks (270). Duncan is first at 568. Kareem second at 476. Shaq fourth at 459. Other notables: Jordan 158, Curry 44.
And for the LeBron v. Curry guys (despite the fact that Curry's teams were always vastly superior aside from this season). Here are their head-to-head playoff stats across 28 games:
LeBron: 31.3 PPG, 10.9 RPG, 8.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 48.3% FG
Curry: 25.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 42.6% FG
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:02 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Can you tell me where you rank Bill Russell and who do you have ahead of him?
quote:Do rings matter or not? You're gonna have a hard time coming up with 5 better players with more rings than Lebron over the past 7 years, but let me guess, they don't matter when you don't need them to to fit that narrative?
If that’s the case, then LeBron is not in your top three or top five and Durant’s been better than him for 7 years.
This post was edited on 5/23/23 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:04 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Eras and rules change which manipulates statistics and styles but winning stands the test of time which is why nerds place stats over winning but people who know sports judge it by winning first.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:06 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:Can you tell me where you rank Bill Russell and who do you have ahead of him?
Correct and one of them played basketball well enough to win 3x in a row and then another 2x in a row.
quote:Incorrect, Lebron has won more than 3 titles.
The other one won back to back when at his athletic peak and then once more
quote:Can you tell me where you rank Bill Russell and who do you have ahead of him?
Kobe is better at winning basketball.
Lebron is a better basketball player, very telling that you've said a lot of things and more skilled and winning basketball but refuse to say Kobe is the better basketball player. if you believe it, say it.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:14 pm to shel311
quote:
Can you tell me where you rank Bill Russell and who do you have ahead of him?
I asked you the same question and with a follow up Is Wilt better than Russell?.my answer remains consistent regardless of who you’re asking about within this tier, at a certain point winning matters. Russell dominated the statistically dominant player hence why most
quote:
You're gonna have a hard time coming up with 5 better players with more rings than Lebron over the past 7 years
Not really, I’ve already listed them.
quote:
, but let me guess, they don't matter when you don't need them to to fit that narrative?
The metric is a calculus, LeBron by virtue of statistical achievement-influenced heavily by the era he played in(not alone in that) crossed into the elites of the game threshold. He also failed to win heads up against his piers. Specifically Curry, Durant, Dirk and Duncan not including the other times he failed to reach the mountaintop. He’s better historically than Durant, mostly because of Durant’s injuries. He’s better than Dirk. He’s inferior to Duncan as a basketball player. Curry is probably a coin flip but 3-1 is 3-1. Both of those guys are lesser than Russell and Russell and Duncan are very damn close.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:15 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Kobe is better at winning basketball.
So you're counting those championships when Kobe was playing 2nd fiddle to prime Shaq?
It's all about championships I see. Do you also rank Tony Parker above Isiah Thomas and John Stockton?
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:17 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:I answered that question, and you've yet to answer mine, why is that?
I asked you the same question and with a follow up
quote:Except you haven't answered, Can you tell me where you rank Bill Russell and who do you have ahead of him?
my answer remains consistent regardless of who you’re asking about within this tier
quote:Like I said before, simply making a list is useless. I could make a list of 150 players better than Lebron James, that means nothing. You can't make a list and legitimately back it up, simply can't be done. Especially if you keep that "rings matter" narrative you set forth, it'll be even harder with that.
Not really, I’ve already listed them.
This post was edited on 5/23/23 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:20 pm to QJenk
quote:He has Kobe over Lebron because of 1 additional title, but won't tell us where he ranks Bill Russell and who he has ahead of Bill Russell.
So you're counting those championships when Kobe was playing 2nd fiddle to prime Shaq?
quote:Robert Horry over Scottie Pippen? Definitely, rings have to matter. But wait, can't do Horry over Pippen because Pippen was asked to do more than Horry...well Lebron was asked to and did more than Kobe but that doesn't matter, it's just talking in circles and constantly boxing yourself into a corner you can't talk your way out of because as I've said from the get go, you can say these 8 players are better than Lebron, but you can't make the argument logically.
It's all about championships I see. Do you also rank Tony Parker above Isiah Thomas and John Stockton?
This post was edited on 5/23/23 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:22 pm to Madking
quote:
Shaq was a very good passer
Yes but on Embiid's level? Shaq never averaged 3apg. Look at the per 36 or per 100 stats. Embiid dominates. Or AST% if you want to get advanced. It's a different stratosphere between the 2.
And/or, what about the level of thousands of guards who have played in the NBA?
quote:
Again shooting is one skill, it doesn’t erase every other skill.
Embiid is a better shooter, passer, and dribbler.
Shaq was very skilled for a post-only big, but bigs today are much more diversified and versatile (via higher skill)
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:22 pm to QJenk
quote:
So you're counting those championships when Kobe was playing 2nd fiddle to prime Shaq?
So…The Heatles? Kyrie hitting the clincher? Blowing a 2-1 lead in 15 and in 11? “Cramping” against the spurs?
How far do you wish to discredit Kobe’s achievements? Kobe played with an absolutely better player than LeBron LeBron played with absolutely more great players and won less.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:24 pm to Madking
quote:
Wrong
Slight trolling, but not wrong.
The rules didn't do as much as schematic/player advances.
The argument you're making applies to MJ though, not Kobe. Nothing prevented Kobe from taking 3s other than Mamba mentality. It was a legit different game in the 80s/early 90s b/c the 3 was so new.
Lebron just has a much better basketball brain and understanding of efficient play than Kobe did. That's why his TS% and AST% are so much higher.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:24 pm to shel311
quote:
Like I said before, simply making a list is useless. I could make a list of 150 players better than Lebron James, that means nothing. You can't make a list and legitimately back it up, simply can't be done. Especially if you keep that "rings matter" narrative you set forth, it'll be even harder with that.
Kobe was more skilled, won more in a tougher conference. LeBron was a better athlete.
Next in line, please.
Posted on 5/23/23 at 2:25 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Can you tell me where you have Bill Russell ranked and who is ahead of him?
quote:You think Lebron wasn't the best player on the Heat?
So…The Heatles?
quote:Paxson/Kerr, you count Kyrie's shot against Lebron but don't do the same for MJ? Or you do knock MJ for others hitting big shots?
Kyrie hitting the clincher?
quote:Not quite as far as you are doing with Lebron, it seems.
How far do you wish to discredit Kobe’s achievements?
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