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Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:03 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:What's funny is, that's all we're really saying. You get that.
Dude, these guys have done a takedown of almost every point like that in this thread. I'm a Brady dickrider, but the bottom line is they have made a pretty good case that of the the Big Four, D is what has put Brady over the top.
I have zero issues with someone choosing Brady as their GOAT, but again, so many in this thread have missed the entire premise.
My 2 main points that I've probably said already:
1. Tell me Brady is the GOAT, that's cool. Don't tell me he's the GOAT because he has 5 rings, get outta here with that.
2. Again, pick Brady as your GOAT, that's cool. Don't tell me he's THAT much better than Manning/Rodgers/Brees, because he's not. The difference between #1 and #4 on that list is really small.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:04 pm to Korin
Once again:
I never said that, someone else did.
You literally didn't even know what total defense meant.
For you to call anyone else a troll after the crap you pulled yesterday is comical. And once again, if you weren't trolling, then you are just plain stupid. Sorry buddy.
I never said that, someone else did.
You literally didn't even know what total defense meant.
For you to call anyone else a troll after the crap you pulled yesterday is comical. And once again, if you weren't trolling, then you are just plain stupid. Sorry buddy.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:06 pm to shel311
quote:
1. Tell me Brady is the GOAT, that's cool. Don't tell me he's the GOAT because he has 5 rings, get outta here with that.
And as I told you last night, Brady is tGOAT because he has the rings AND the numbers to back it up. You consistently ignored the latter point. He is Top 5 in just about every major statistical category used to measure the worth of a QB. He also has the championships and (soon) the wins to back it up as well. Combined with his numbers, the rings, the wins, and the clutch performances in big games put him over the top when judging four different athletes who play at a similar level.
That has always and will always be my argument.
This post was edited on 2/9/17 at 5:08 pm
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:07 pm to RollTide1987
quote:So then you don't diminish the others accomplishments or lack thereof because they haven't had good defenses, right? Except, you do.
The fact that Brady has had good defenses does little to diminish his accomplishments when he's on the field.
quote:No, but when you're given that great defense so much more than the other 3 guys, you're able to come away with victory more often, despite not playing as well as all 3 of them in the playoffs, right?
Just because you're given an opportunity by a great defense to do something with the football doesn't mean you're always going to come through with a victory
quote:Well, Brees actually played the Falcons twice this season and scored 32 points in each game, compared to Brady's 28 in regulation, minus the 7 Brady gave back for a net of 21, so...
Can you say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Manning or Brees would have been able to produce a similar comeback if gifted with the same opportunity? You can't because it never happened. You can only speculate
quote:I disagree, said no one ever.
Defense or no defense, Brady has proven his greatness.
quote:Correct. But we don't know the outcome of that game would have been any different if Manning/Rodgers/Brees were the QB of the Patriots at kickoff, nor do we know any of those 3 play poorly enough to find themselves down 28-3.
But if Trent Dilfer is quarterbacking the Patriots on Sunday night down 28-3 in the third quarter instead of Brady, we all know what the outcome would have been
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:08 pm to shel311
quote:Yep, and with that, I will finally actually give my opinion
2. Again, pick Brady as your GOAT, that's cool. Don't tell me he's THAT much better than Manning/Rodgers/Brees, because he's not. The difference between #1 and #4 on that list is really small.
1. Rodgers- I think he separated himself with the throws he can make that the others can't
t2. Brady/Manning
I like Brady because I think he is slightly more consistent, and I feel that he will be able to sustain his success longer. I like Manning, because I think he innovated the modern day qb, and being able to have qb success with 4 separate coaches and two different organizations is impressive
4. Brees- His propensity for interceptions has him slightly below the other 2. However, this may not be fair because these ints may be because his defense sucks arse and is forced to be too aggressive.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:12 pm to RollTide1987
quote:Dear God. Because Manning/Rodgers/Brees don't have those intangibles.
And this whole thread ignores the intangibles that most analysts use to put Brady over the top: namely his leadership abilities, his mental and physical toughness, as well as his ability to win.
Have good defense, help win titles, you get credit for intangibles. How do people really believe this?
quote:1. Well no, you don't make that come back with "no defense"
Once Atlanta went up 28-3, Brady finished 26-33 for 284 yards and two touchdowns (with no interceptions). Defense or no defense, that is how you spark one of the greatest comebacks in football history - and on the game's biggest stage to boot.
2. He was one of the reasons why they were down 28-3, it's silly to give him extra credit for a comeback as opposed to him just playing well from quarter 1 and securing a victory from the outset.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:12 pm to shel311
quote:
Except, you do.
I don't.
quote:
No, but when you're given that great defense so much more than the other 3 guys, you're able to come away with victory more often, despite not playing as well as all 3 of them in the playoffs, right?
Using what metric? He owns the playoff record for appearances, wins, completions, yards gained, 300-yard games, touchdown passes, and single game completion percentage.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:16 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:And the more important efficiency stats likely get better as he doesn't have to force the issue as much with a better D.
Well if brees had a better d he wouldn't have the counting stats.
TD%
INT%
All of those things likely go up.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:17 pm to RollTide1987
quote:You can't win down 28-3 if you can't stop them from scoring, so yea, that easily kills that point you tried to make.
You can't win if you can't score.
quote:An offense can play a great game and lose 51-45 in the playoffs, see Aaron Rodgers. You need a defense to actually stop the other team. Again, point killed.
A defense can play the game of their lives and still lose a game 3-0. You need an offense and capable QB to actually put points on the board.
quote:Why, just cause? If ATL scores 1 time, the comeback is done. If NE doesn't score 1 time, the comeback is done. They needed each other equally.
And when you're down 25 points with just over two minutes to go in the third quarter, most of the credit for that comeback has to go to the offense.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:20 pm to RollTide1987
quote:For worse...
For better or for worse, most analysts of the game use championships to do that
quote:Entirely irrelevant.
I don't care if you disagree with me or not, fact of the matter is, you all are pretty much in the minority.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:21 pm to Korin
quote:
Korin
quote:Surrpised to see this dude bringing up total defense again after he proved to so many posters he didn't know what it meant.
Total defense
Then got proved wrong again on how the NFL orders their team stats on their website. That was a tough one to watch.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:22 pm to RollTide1987
quote:How does one contribute MORE to a team's success than another guy at the same position who plays the position better than you?
And as I told you last night, Brady is tGOAT because he has the rings AND the numbers to back it up. You consistently ignored the latter point. He is Top 5 in just about every major statistical category used to measure the worth of a QB. He also has the championships and (soon) the wins to back it up as well. Combined with his numbers, the rings, the wins, and the clutch performances in big games put him over the top when judging four different athletes who play at a similar level.
Please, just answer that....
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:23 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
I never said that,
A bit dog always hollers.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:23 pm to shel311
quote:
Surrpised to see this dude bringing up total defense again after he proved to so many posters he didn't know what it meant.
Then got proved wrong again on how the NFL orders their team stats on their website. That was a tough one to watch.
Oh the irony.
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:24 pm to shel311
quote:
How does one contribute MORE to a team's success than another guy at the same position who plays the position better than you?
Please, just answer that....
By not throwing more interceptions than touchdowns in his SB appearances?
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:24 pm to RollTide1987
quote:Sure you do, because you use 5 titles as evidence that Brady is better. So yea, you do. You're diminishing their accomplishments based on how good the defenses they played with were.
I don't.
quote:You literally can't make a coherent argument for Brady's sub 90 Passer rating compared to Rodgers or Brees to say Brady has played the position of QB better in the playoffs than those 2.
Using what metric?
Stop, don't even try that. That's a bad look.
This post was edited on 2/9/17 at 5:26 pm
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:24 pm to shel311
Shel if it can't be measured in the box score it doesn't exist to you.
Intangibles brotha. Intangibles!!
Intangibles brotha. Intangibles!!
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:27 pm to Korin
quote:Remember when you tried to say the NFL thought 1 was more important because of the order, then I showed you they ordered field goals as "more important" according to your logic than offensive scoring, then you said my screenshot was from a different page despite it being from the exact page you linked and I clicked on?
Oh the irony
Remember that? Ahhh, that was good times!!
Posted on 2/9/17 at 5:28 pm to shel311
Oh the irony.
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