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Just how important is the baseball closer: Mariano Rivera related
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:06 pm
Thought I would start a spin-off based on him being the first unanimous selection
How many coaches would trade the best closer of all time( not saying all that much considering it’s a relatively new position) for a 12 year starter who was an above average guy that made let’s say 3-5 all star games and always finished in the top 15-20 in the league for era and whip?
I’d say not many would. Leaving me to wonder how many of those guys could actually make dominant closers
How many coaches would trade the best closer of all time( not saying all that much considering it’s a relatively new position) for a 12 year starter who was an above average guy that made let’s say 3-5 all star games and always finished in the top 15-20 in the league for era and whip?
I’d say not many would. Leaving me to wonder how many of those guys could actually make dominant closers
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 6:07 pm
12
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:08 pm to lsupride87
Was expecting a chart and graph
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:08 pm to lsupride87
The simple fact that dominant year to year closers are rather rare makes them valuable to me
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:10 pm to tduecen
me too.Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:13 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:But how many coaches are spending good arms trying to develop this? If they don’t see the value, they wouldn’t be inclined to develop mediocre starters into closers
The simple fact that dominant year to year closers are rather rare makes them valuable to me
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:15 pm to lsupride87
are you implying that Rivera was voting in because people think the closer is super important?
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:16 pm to lsupride87
Well heres the deal... YES the so called closer is a somewhat new tradition yet Mike Marshall appereared in 106 games way back in 1974... However.. the difference is that starters don't do what they used to by going 7-8 innings a game.... The complete game is a long gone thing in baseball... plus the starters go every 5 days instead of four... That changed the game dramatically...............
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:16 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
The simple fact that dominant year to year closers are rather rare makes them valuable to me
That's the key. Mo did it 652 times and another 42 times in the postseason.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:16 pm to lsupride87
Billy Beane has traded a lot of 30plus save guys for other players.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:17 pm to Lester Earl
quote:No
are you implying that Rivera was voting in because people think the closer is super important?
Him getting 100% of the vote just made me think about this
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:21 pm to lsupride87
It's a tricky situation. I think we have all grown accustomed to the idea that you let your starter go 7 or 8 and then he hands it off and you put everything you can to finding that guy. And while I dont think I'm willing to abandon the idea of looking for the guy, I do think we are starting to value guys like rivera over decent but not great starters
We are literally seeing the opener in the NLCS. Will that lead to more dominant bull pen arms than in the past? Maybe. We are kinda at a crossroads with this so who knows what will happen
We are literally seeing the opener in the NLCS. Will that lead to more dominant bull pen arms than in the past? Maybe. We are kinda at a crossroads with this so who knows what will happen
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:22 pm to lsupride87
IMO it just further illustrates what a joke the Baseball Hall can be that a closer is the first to get 100%
Sure Rivera was the best closer and I do think he should be in but I could actually see an argument against a straight reliver. There’s no argument against Maddux, Griffey, Randy Johnson among countless others
Sure Rivera was the best closer and I do think he should be in but I could actually see an argument against a straight reliver. There’s no argument against Maddux, Griffey, Randy Johnson among countless others
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:22 pm to lsupride87
quote:John Smoltz TYFYS
let’s say 3-5 all star games and always finished in the top 15-20 in the league for era and whip?
I’d say not many would. Leaving me to wonder how many of those guys could actually make dominant closers
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:24 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Him getting 100% of the vote just made me think about this
He is a closer..... He was the best at it, but NOT 100%............ NO WAY...............
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:27 pm to genro
quote:
John Smoltz TYFY
flash Gordon was another starter who became a closer.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:30 pm to lsupride87
Pitching roles are being redefined in the present era and closers (bullpen arms) are more important than even.
and just depends on what kind of pitcher you are talking about.
Are we talking about a Cole hamels, david price, roy oswalt, tim hudson type
or josh beckett, dan haren, mark bueherle type
and just depends on what kind of pitcher you are talking about.
Are we talking about a Cole hamels, david price, roy oswalt, tim hudson type
or josh beckett, dan haren, mark bueherle type
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:34 pm to dukke v
quote:
He is a closer..... He was the best at it, but NOT 100%............ NO WAY...............
I can’t find fault with him being on everyone’s ballot. I think it’s crazy that other guys haven’t been but Baseball Writers, especially the older guys, tend to be pricks.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:35 pm to lsupride87
I think high leverage relievers are important to a team but closers as most often used now are overrated. I certainly wouldn’t trade for one. If I can’t find a guy in my organization to get me three outs consistently, there are bigger problems.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:41 pm to dukke v
Dennis Eckersley got 83% of the vote.
There's no way Mariano was that much better.
He just happened to play for the Yankees and they were in the WS a lot while he was there.
Eck had a 20-game win season as a starter AND a 50-game win season as a closer.
I don't recall Mariano ever starting and winning 20 games in a season.
Eck gave up five earned runs in the entire 1990 season, resulting in a microscopic 0.61 ERA.
In his 1990 season, Eckersley became the first relief pitcher in baseball history to have more saves than baserunners allowed (48 SV, 41 H, 4 BB, 0 HBP).
He was the American League's Cy Young Award winner and the American League's Most Valuable Player in 1992, a season in which he posted 51 saves. Only two relievers had previously accomplished the double feat: Rollie Fingers in 1981 and Willie Hernández in 1984.
There's no way Mariano was that much better.
He just happened to play for the Yankees and they were in the WS a lot while he was there.
Eck had a 20-game win season as a starter AND a 50-game win season as a closer.
I don't recall Mariano ever starting and winning 20 games in a season.
Eck gave up five earned runs in the entire 1990 season, resulting in a microscopic 0.61 ERA.
In his 1990 season, Eckersley became the first relief pitcher in baseball history to have more saves than baserunners allowed (48 SV, 41 H, 4 BB, 0 HBP).
He was the American League's Cy Young Award winner and the American League's Most Valuable Player in 1992, a season in which he posted 51 saves. Only two relievers had previously accomplished the double feat: Rollie Fingers in 1981 and Willie Hernández in 1984.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:43 pm to Bham Bammer
quote:
I can’t find fault with him being on everyone’s ballot
I can... Compared to other players....... He was the best at what he did... But wasn't Ruth?????????
Or Gehrig???? Or even Griffey... They played the whole game?????????
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