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re: Just how important is the baseball closer: Mariano Rivera related
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:43 pm to lsupride87
Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:43 pm to lsupride87
the #1 reason the Angels won the WS in 2002 was because of K Rod in the 8th and Percival in the 9th. Nobody could score off them in the playoffs.
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Posted on 1/22/19 at 6:43 pm to lsupride87
Rivera kill a man so it's debatable like Ray Lewis
Posted on 1/22/19 at 7:29 pm to dukke v
quote:
I can... Compared to other players....... He was the best at what he did... But wasn't Ruth?????????
Or Gehrig???? Or even Griffey... They played the whole game?????????
I mean, if the guy is a Hall of Famer, and he clearly is, he SHOULD be on everyone's ballot. Yes, others along the way should have as well.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 7:42 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:I would say this makes them lose credibility, but the Baseball HOF would have to have credibility for that to happen.
IMO it just further illustrates what a joke the Baseball Hall can be that a closer is the first to get 100%
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:21 pm to lsupride87
i juat read your title before. just read actual post. didnt know he got 100% vote for first time ever. is he better than Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth? hell no. it is ridiculous that this is the first unanimous inductee
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:26 pm to little billy
He and Jeter are the two most overrated players in baseball history. Top 10 overrated players in all of sports history .
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:48 pm to TheeRealCarolina
Pretty sure I'd rather have a guy like Ken Griffey Jr or Greg Maddux on my team for 10+ years than Rivera
And that's just pulling from the last 30 years or so
And that's just pulling from the last 30 years or so
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 8:49 pm
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:53 pm to Sun God
Everyone would.
There are great kickers too. And punters. Not everyone has to be Vinatieri or Ray Guy.
The margin between great and all-time great is tiny in niche positions. Most FG kickers are within tiny percentage points of made and missed FGs.
Like I posted earlier, Eck was only 83% on the ballot and the dude won 20 games as a starter and then moved to the pen where he had the lowest ERA ever.
Gave up 5 hits a year with 50 saves.
But Mariano is 100% and Eck is only 83%? Either you're the best and everyone agrees or you don't get in.
And yes, every club in every league would take not only the full-time players you listed but Eck over Mariano because Eck at one point was a full-time pitcher.
There are great kickers too. And punters. Not everyone has to be Vinatieri or Ray Guy.
The margin between great and all-time great is tiny in niche positions. Most FG kickers are within tiny percentage points of made and missed FGs.
Like I posted earlier, Eck was only 83% on the ballot and the dude won 20 games as a starter and then moved to the pen where he had the lowest ERA ever.
Gave up 5 hits a year with 50 saves.
But Mariano is 100% and Eck is only 83%? Either you're the best and everyone agrees or you don't get in.
And yes, every club in every league would take not only the full-time players you listed but Eck over Mariano because Eck at one point was a full-time pitcher.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:56 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Reminded me of one of my favorite stats: in 1990 Eck had an ERA+ of 603 :-0
Posted on 1/22/19 at 8:56 pm to dukke v
Go away you clueless Sux fan! Mo was the best Closer of all time, thus he should get 100%. End of discussion
Posted on 1/22/19 at 9:06 pm to BayouBuster
Closers are the most overrated position in sports. Your sole job is to not frick up a great situation. That’s it. You face maybe 200 batters a year. Any idiot that ever votes a closer for mvp or hell even cy young should be fired from their outlet and shunned from the sport.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 9:44 pm to TheeRealCarolina
Rivera has arguably the best pitch the game has ever seen. Regardless of him only pitching an inning per night, major leaguers knew what was coming and still couldnt hit his cutter. Overrated is a mighty hot take
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:05 pm to lsupride87
Closers in general have been overrated for years. However, Mariano is a major outlier. It’s hard to quantify his value.
He was consistently great for nearly 20 years. I don’t know what is more impressive, his dominance or his consistency?
His postseason stats are unreal. His value in the postseason is off the charts, and the reason he received 100% of the vote.
Over 140 Innings, only 2 HRs allowed, only 1 loss, and a 0.70 ERA.
He was consistently great for nearly 20 years. I don’t know what is more impressive, his dominance or his consistency?
His postseason stats are unreal. His value in the postseason is off the charts, and the reason he received 100% of the vote.
Over 140 Innings, only 2 HRs allowed, only 1 loss, and a 0.70 ERA.
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:45 pm to dukke v
quote:
He is a closer..... He was the best at it, but NOT 100%............ NO WAY...............
The question shouldn't be "does he deserve to get 100% of the vote for the first time?" That makes it a comparison to other players that didn't get it for whatever reason. It should be "is he a HoF player?"
The answer is yes. If you're voting for the players with the greatest impact during their time in the bigs then Mo belongs on that list. When the ONLY argument against him is, "well yeah he's HoF material BUT these guys didn't get 100% of the vote so he shouldn't either," then it is a shite argument.
Yes, there are other players that should have been unanimous HoF picks and for whatever reason they weren't, but you can't argue Mo belonging in the hall.
ETA: Your post literally says, "he was the best at it." That alone should be the end of the discussion.
This post was edited on 1/22/19 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 1/22/19 at 10:51 pm to Ghost of Colby
quote:
Rivera has arguably the best pitch the game has ever seen. Regardless of him only pitching an inning per night, major leaguers knew what was coming and still couldnt hit his cutter. Overrated is a mighty hot take
Hands down. He lived off of one pitch for 17 seasons (remove one as a starter experiment and 1 he was injured most of the year).
quote:
Closers in general have been overrated for years. However, Mariano is a major outlier. It’s hard to quantify his value.
Yup. As another poster said, you'll see a flash in the pan every once in a while but nobody has the consistency or longevity of Rivera. He basically invented the role.
quote:
His postseason stats are unreal. His value in the postseason is off the charts, and the reason he received 100% of the vote.
Over 140 Innings, only 2 HRs allowed, only 1 loss, and a 0.70 ERA.
That's the craziest part to me. You could make a legitimate argument his numbers in the postseason were actually better
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:19 am to lsupride87
Just found this
Teams have a 86.7% of winning leading by 1 run headed into the 9th, 93.7% when heading into the 9th up by 2, and 97.5% when leading by 3
Rivera’s save rate was 89.1%
Now, there are times he entered the game earlier than the 9th inning, or inherited runners on base etc
But, I honestly am having a hard time figuring out how this isn’t laughable how much we valued him
Teams have a 86.7% of winning leading by 1 run headed into the 9th, 93.7% when heading into the 9th up by 2, and 97.5% when leading by 3
Rivera’s save rate was 89.1%
Now, there are times he entered the game earlier than the 9th inning, or inherited runners on base etc
But, I honestly am having a hard time figuring out how this isn’t laughable how much we valued him
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 12:29 am
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:30 am to Ghost of Colby
quote:
His postseason stats are unreal. His value in the postseason is off the charts, and the reason he received 100% of the vote. Over 140 Innings, only 2 HRs allowed, only 1 loss, and a 0.70 ERA.
Great regular season closer, perhaps the best all time in the playoffs. Even past his prime, he was still untouchable in the post season.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:39 am to lsupride87
I'd assume those are cumulative win percentages, not necessarily win without going into extras percentages.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:55 am to tduecen
I’m hoping baseball season will bring back around Mountaintop. This is his kind of thread
Posted on 1/23/19 at 12:55 am to theducks
Any response to pride's post other than "gut feel"
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