re: JJ Watt mic'd up against the Titans - UPDATE: intriguing steroid debate

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But try and wrap your mind around the stratosphere he is on right now. And what he once was. It's not something that can be explained by saying "he corrected his technique and bloomed late".

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It also can't be explained by saying, "yea, he just started juicing"

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Sure, but it's as likely to be a freak, unexplainable occurrence as is it's because of steroids.

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then why wasn't he a freak at Wisconsin?

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Better question is if it's that simple that steroids can make that much of a change,

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It's not that simple. The guy obviously has ability. But steroids are at the top of the list.

You're just arguing semantics at this point.

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WR's? There are tons of speedy guys out there. 6'5" 290 lb linemen with 55" verticals are a TOTALLY different

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You really think I was specifically talking about WRs?

That one went right over your head, my bad.

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So if all those 20 sack guys were always great are you saying

a) JJ Watt is the first player to be able to elevate himself to that level using steroids

or

b) Those guys took steroids too, they just did it sooner in their career

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Im not saying those guys were always great. Im saying they were always great pass rushers. And it's fishy that Watt all of a sudden is a 20 sack guy when he's never been that EVER at any point in his life.


And im not saying JJ Watt is the first guy to ever take steroids. He's just the subject at hand. Y'all continue to throw that out for some reason. We can look at players on a case by case subject, but to just keep throwing out "other players use steroids too!!" is kind of dumb. It's obvious they do.


As for Michael STrahan, I wouldnt be surprised if he juiced too. I was young when he broke in, so I didnt really follow the Giants at that time. I know he came from a small school, so maybe there was some adjustment there. But i do know he was an award winning pass rusher in college, so those instincts were always in place.

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. But i do know he was an award winning pass rusher in college, so those instincts were always in place.

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So is pass rushing instincts or physical ability. You talk about pass rushing like its astro physics. If its a skill then it can be easily explained by him actually getting to play the position more.

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And im not saying JJ Watt is the first guy to ever take steroids. He's just the subject at hand. Y'all continue to throw that out for some reason. We can look at players on a case by case subject, but to just keep throwing out "other players use steroids too!!" is kind of dumb. It's obvious they do

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How is it dumb? If others players are doing it but not one single player has seen the jump he has, that's pretty telling evidence against your theory that steroids took him from ok to GOAT status.

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You're just avoiding the point, plenty of players do steroids,

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Im not avoiding the point. Again, we can look at it on a case by case. I'm not going to sit here and simply assume every player takes steroids, and JJ Watt's situation should be compared to every player. Cause not every player goes from a run stuffing 5 sack 3-4 DE to 20 NFL sack monster..

I don't see how hard that is to understand.


Like to do we want to compare him to Robert Quinn? Robert Quinn had 19 sacks as a Sophomore at North Carolina. Could he have done steroids? Maybe. Are you shocked that he had 19 sacks in the NFL last year? I'm not. He's certainly not raising my eyebrows like Watt has.

But yea, you can keep saying "plenty of players do steroids'. I'll never disagree with you.

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But yea, you can keep saying "plenty of players do steroids'. I'll never disagree with you.

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So why are they having a wildly different effect on just Watt and not everyone else?

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Cause not every player goes from a run stuffing 5 sack 3-4 DE to 20 NFL sack monster..

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A couple of problems with the main point of your arument. He was "that" guy for 3 whole seasons. The first 3 seasons of him playing that position past high school. If he did that through college and his first 5 years in the pros...then blew up, id be more inclined to agree.

Secondly he had ONE 20 sack season so far, that was probably a lot of luck. He had 10 the next and he'll probably have 14-15 this year.

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He was a "monster" at Wisconsin? Meh, i wouldn't say that. He was very good though. What exactly changed to make him an elite pass rusher? Why couldn't he do this then? How come he can have 2x's as many QB hits as the 2nd place guy in the NFL, yet could only muster 11sacks in 2 years of the Big 10?

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To be fair, he didn't even play defensive end until his sophomore(or junior?) year at Wisconsin. If there is a player who could make that kind of jump without steroids, it would be one who is still very new to the position.