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re: JJ Watt mic'd up against the Titans - UPDATE: intriguing steroid debate
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:32 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:32 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Then we have JJ Watt. 4 sacks as a JR, 7 as a SR at Wisconsin. In the past 3 decades where pass rushers are born, not bred, JJ Watt defies all odds simply by being a late bloomer.
How many of those other guys played tight end rather than DE through their freshman year of college?
And I think he's roided up as all hell. But its not a fair comparison.
0
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:33 pm to Lester Earl
quote:And he had only 10.5 sacks last year.
quote: I don't know nor care if he did steroids, but you're nuts if you think all of a sudden, he got THAT much better in 1 year with only 1 change, starting steroids. I don't know how he did it, but it sure is fishy. Players don't all of a sudden turn into 20 sack NFL players. Not when you hadn't hit double digits at any point in your career. Coming off of Jr year Wisc: 4 sacks Sr year Wisc 7 sacks Rookie year NFL: 5.5 sacks He was a "monster" at Wisconsin? Meh, i wouldn't say that. He was very good though. What exactly changed to make him an elite pass rusher? Why couldn't he do this then? How come he can have 2x's as many QB hits as the 2nd place guy in the NFL, yet could only muster 11sacks in 2 years of the Big 10?
Did he just juice for 1 year when he had 20 sacks?
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:35 pm to Lester Earl
quote:Are you aware that he was a tight end in college and was converted into a DE? He hasn't exactly been playing the position very long, so it makes sense that he could make big leaps.
Then we have JJ Watt. 4 sacks as a JR, 7 as a SR at Wisconsin. In the past 3 decades where pass rushers are born, not bred, JJ Watt defies all odds simply by being a late bloomer.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:38 pm to PrimeTime Money
he played DE in college for 3 years. After playing it in HS. Is his path really that obscure?
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:38 pm to Lester Earl
quote:lol
When you can explain his rise other then being a late bloomer, I'll attempt to explain this.
This post was edited on 12/4/14 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:39 pm to PrimeTime Money
Thats like asking how Richard Sherman got so dominate he moved from WR to Corner at Stanford and then he only had 6 interceptions in two years.
Then all of a sudden, in his second year in the league he has 7 interceptions in 2012 and 8 last year in his third year in 2013.
Must be the roids.
Then all of a sudden, in his second year in the league he has 7 interceptions in 2012 and 8 last year in his third year in 2013.
Must be the roids.
This post was edited on 12/4/14 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:40 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
I understand players get better. But try and wrap your mind around the stratosphere he is on right now. And what he once was. It's not something that can be explained by saying "he corrected his technique and bloomed late".
Yes, but how do roids explain this....
LINK
Thats just playing chess when everybody else is playing checkers. He is amazing for multiple reasons. He's freakish physique is one and why I suspect steroids. But he's also an unreal talent for reasons other than physical measurements. Once he learned to play the position, its only a matter of time before a player who can do what is shown in that video starts dominating. His whole frame is absolutely massive and perfect for football and that's got nothing to do with steroids. Steroids don't grow your bones. Now steroids might help fill your frame out. Which is the answer to the people questioning why other players aren't having as much success with steroids.
Steroids can fill out a frame so they are more useful for frames that are almost naturally impossible to fill out to the same extent as a normal frame. A 5'6" bodybuilding can reach closer to his potential naturally than a 6'6" guys with LONGGG arms.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:40 pm to SabiDojo
quote:He doesn't even have close to a 55" vertical... Where did you hear that??
WR's? There are tons of speedy guys out there. 6'5" 290 lb linemen with 55" verticals are a TOTALLY different story.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:41 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Thats like asking why Richard Sherman how dominate he's been since moving from WR to Corner at Stanford when he only had 6 interceptions in two years.
Then all of a sudden, in his second year in the league he has 7 interceptions in 2012 and 8 last year in his third year in 2013.
Must be the roids.
Eh, except Sherman's domination is nowhere close to what Watt is doing. But yeh, that is a good example of a guy switching positions nullifying his lack of early career dominance.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:43 pm to boom roasted
quote:
What I'm confused about is, if he wasn't that impressive in college, why was he selected 11th overall?
The same reason someone took Tyson Jackson 3rd overall.
3-4 DE. Hard to find position in that scheme.
and you shouldnt equate "wasn't a great pass rusher" to "he wasnt impressive" in colllege.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:43 pm to TheSexecutioner
Hell Watt is the same age as Sherman.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:45 pm to Lester Earl
Incorrect. He was selected that high because he is the only person on the planet with a frame like that and great skills. They knew if he filled it out he would be downright scary. Probably didn't in their wildest dreams think he would get this physically or skillfully dominant.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:46 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Thats like asking how Richard Sherman got so dominate he moved from WR to Corner at Stanford and then he only had 6 interceptions in two years.
Then all of a sudden, in his second year in the league he has 7 interceptions in 2012 and 8 last year in his third year in 2013.
Must be the roids.
It's really hard to compare a DB to a Defensive lineman.
Or Aaron Rodgers to a DL.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:47 pm to TheSexecutioner
Could you be more clear on what exactly I said was incorrect?
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:49 pm to Lester Earl
not really. Its not like JJ Watt went from getting pushed back to pushing linemen back. He's improved primarily through instincts. Watching him play you can see how ridiculous his instincts are.
And I agree with you that he's roided. But you should stick to just the physical development. And not even the development IMO. Just the physical state. Its not like he was small in college. I just don't believe a human can get that big and be that fast naturally. Or I believe it can happen but I think its more likely that a natural physical freak beats a drug test than there is an absolute freak among freaks.
And I agree with you that he's roided. But you should stick to just the physical development. And not even the development IMO. Just the physical state. Its not like he was small in college. I just don't believe a human can get that big and be that fast naturally. Or I believe it can happen but I think its more likely that a natural physical freak beats a drug test than there is an absolute freak among freaks.
This post was edited on 12/4/14 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:51 pm to Lester Earl
quote:Can you explain how he had the most impressive combine stats at his position? You don't think that had anything to do with it? And you don't think a guy with physical abilities like that can improve in the NFL?
The same reason someone took Tyson Jackson 3rd overall. 3-4 DE. Hard to find position in that scheme. and you shouldnt equate "wasn't a great pass rusher" to "he wasnt impressive" in colllege.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:54 pm to Lester Earl
And this probably comes from my background as a religious follower of track and field. I follow a sport where people aren't afforded the luxury of being naive to how implausible it is for a person to be as physically dominant without steroids as the most physically dominating person with steroids.
I believe the most physically dominant person at any feat will almost without exception be roided. There just isn't enough natural separation at the top tier of human athletes that the top natural person can get a big enough natural gap on the top Roider to cover the advantage drugs give.
I believe the most physically dominant person at any feat will almost without exception be roided. There just isn't enough natural separation at the top tier of human athletes that the top natural person can get a big enough natural gap on the top Roider to cover the advantage drugs give.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:54 pm to PrimeTime Money
I didnt say he wasnt worthy of the 11th pick.
but 11 sacks in 2 years of college is fine for a 3-4 DE that is his size. You arent expected to be a double digit sack guy at that position.
but 11 sacks in 2 years of college is fine for a 3-4 DE that is his size. You arent expected to be a double digit sack guy at that position.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:59 pm to Lester Earl
So when did he take steroids in your opinion? You said he wasn't physically impressive in college. So you are saying he didn't take steroids in college.
Yet he had the best mix of stats at the combine.
If he wasn't physically impressive in college, then how were his combine numbers so good?
When did this huge leap in physical ability happen?
Yet he had the best mix of stats at the combine.
If he wasn't physically impressive in college, then how were his combine numbers so good?
When did this huge leap in physical ability happen?
Posted on 12/4/14 at 12:59 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You dont blossom from a Central Michigan type recruit to a walk on at Wisc into the freakiest defensive player in the NFL. You're either born a freak, or you use enhancers to get there. It's obvious what side he falls on.
White guys develop later than black players all the time. Most don't start to excel until a couple years into college, just like Watt
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