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Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:36 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Best P4P fighter of this generation(not taking in to account resume) = Vitali Klitschko
I disagree with this statement and I don't know how you arrive at it. On what basis is Vitali a great P4P fighter?
Eyeball test? No.
Ring dominance? No.
I mean, Klitschko lost to Chris Byrd, who I'm fairly certain I could go the distance with. Simply stated, there is nothing about Vitali that screams greatness, much less historical greatness.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:37 am to bobbyray21
quote:
And I found this LINK /
But nowhere does you link suggest that he has demanded Olympic Style testing for every single fight, like you stated.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:40 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
What is so difficult to understand?
Best P4P fighter of this generation(taking in to account resume) = Roy/Hopkins/Pacquiao/Barrera/Marquez
Best P4P fighter of this generation(not taking in to account resume) = Vitali Klitschko
1. Being the best P4P fighter is not about a resume comparison, it is about how great the fighter was.
2. Fighters with bad resumes are great P4P fighters.
I said #1. I did not say or imply #2.
You either think I said #2, or you think #2 flows logically from #1. The former case, learn to read. In the latter case, learn to not be a moron.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:41 am to Tactical1
quote:
But nowhere does you link suggest that he has demanded Olympic Style testing for every single fight, like you stated.
Dude, I already responded to you.
quote:
But nowhere does you link suggest that he has demanded Olympic Style testing for every single fight, like you stated.
Well then I was wrong about the specifics of the testing he demanded.
But the point remains the same. Every other fighter has gone along with it. Pac didn't want to.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:41 am to bobbyray21
quote:
Chris Byrd, who I'm fairly certain I could go the distance with.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:44 am to Tactical1
quote:
Tactical1
I agree. It's actually funny how terrible Chris Byrd was.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:45 am to bobbyray21
If you don't use their resume/accomplishments, then why did you try to discredit Ali by saying he got knocked down by someone?
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:45 am to bobbyray21
quote:
I agree. It's actually funny how terrible Chris Byrd was.
Guy was 45-5-1
but you could go the distance with him, get real.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:46 am to Tactical1
quote:
Guy was 45-5-1
but you could go the distance with him, get real.
It was hyperbole.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:55 am to iwasthere
quote:
If you don't use their resume/accomplishments, then why did you try to discredit Ali by saying he got knocked down by someone?
Look you always have to look at a fighter's results. So in asking whether fighter A was better than fighter B, you're going to look at what they've done. The body of work is your evidence that you use in answering the question.
But here is my point, and this is why I use the Alien Test as much as I do, is that when you're comparing fighters from different times, a straight resume comparison is completely meaningless. It isn't apples to apples. Every career has a different context with different factors. I don't hold it against Marciano that he never beat anybody worth a shite. But what I do hold against Marciano is the fact that -- compared to other great heavyweights -- he was too small and too slow to be competitive.
So, in asking who was a better P4P fighter between Ali at his best or Mayweather at his best or Jones at his best or Ray Robinson at his best...it is to be expected that all of the aforementioned will be both credited and discredited based on the stuff they've done in the ring.
This post was edited on 5/9/13 at 11:56 am
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:57 am to bobbyray21
quote:
Look you always have to look at a fighter's results. So in asking whether fighter A was better than fighter B, you're going to look at what they've done. The body of work is your evidence that you use in answering the question.
But here is my point, and this is why I use the Alien Test as much as I do, is that when you're comparing fighters from different times, a straight resume comparison is completely meaningless. It isn't apples to apples. Every career has a different context with different factors. I don't hold it against Marciano that he never beat anybody worth a shite. But what I do hold against Marciano is the fact that -- compared to other great heavyweights -- he was too small and too slow to be competitive.
So, in asking who was a better P4P fighter between Ali at his best or Mayweather at his best or Jones at his best or Ray Robinson at his best...it is to be expected that all of the aforementioned will be both credited and discredited based on the stuff they've done in the ring.
And I can't believe I just had to explain that.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 11:59 am to bobbyray21
In his Prime Sugar Ray leonard would DESTROY Mayweather........
Posted on 5/9/13 at 12:02 pm to dukke v
quote:
In his Prime Sugar Ray leonard would DESTROY Mayweather........
Different weight classes.
ETA: Mayweather wouldn't beat Leonard at 159. But I like his chances at 146.
This post was edited on 5/9/13 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 5/9/13 at 12:03 pm to dukke v
I can't believe this has gone a whole four pages without somebody quoting "Coming to America" 
Posted on 5/9/13 at 12:05 pm to bobbyray21
It is obvious you are going off of pure opinion. You can not make a valid argument. You say you don't hold it against Marciano because he never beat anyone worth a crap, yet when another poster says Mayweather fighst at a time when boxing is at a low, you say that is a reason why Mayweather is great. You are so inconsistent with your reasoning that you have tricked yourself into thinking it is reality.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 12:16 pm to iwasthere
quote:
It is obvious you are going off of pure opinion. You can not make a valid argument. You say you don't hold it against Marciano because he never beat anyone worth a crap, yet when another poster says Mayweather fighst at a time when boxing is at a low, you say that is a reason why Mayweather is great. You are so inconsistent with your reasoning that you have tricked yourself into thinking it is reality.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Keep in mind that I'm watching the fights, okay. Context. Eyeball test. These things are included. Marciano got dominated dominated for 13 rounds -- and droppd in the second round -- by a 38 year old Jersey Joe Walcott. Is that greatness? Is that what a historically great fighter does?*
Or does a historically great fighter dominate every guy he fights from the opening round on? Does he dominate guys in such a clear fashion hat you don't even realize they were any good until you see their other fights? Does he have people asking whether he is the best defensive fighter of all time?
And that for me -- his ability to avoid getting hit with subtle technical moves -- is what sets him apart from guys like Jones, Robinson, Ali, etc. He is so good technically that you forget how quick he is. Well...he also really damn quick, with both hands and feet.
*And keep in mind that the best two guys Marciano fought were a 38 year old Walcott, and a 176 year old Joe Louis.
This post was edited on 5/9/13 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 5/9/13 at 12:18 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
And I found this LINK /
An article from January of 2013? That's your evidence that backs up this statement:
quote:
The guy has demanded Olympic style drug testing for all of his fights
?
An article from 3 months ago?
I have no dog in this race, but if you're gonna try to find sources that back up a ridiculous claim like him "demanding Olympic style testing for ALL of his fights," you might want to at least go back a little further than three and a half months ago.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 12:19 pm to Zap Rowsdower
quote:
I can't believe this has gone a whole four pages without somebody quoting "Coming to America"
Hahahaha. See my most recent post. I promise I hadn't seen this.
Posted on 5/9/13 at 12:21 pm to CocomoLSU
I didn't read the first three pages, but why does the "best pound for pound ____" always have to be a small guy? Can't a heavyweight fighter, 7'6" center, or 250 lb. running back be the best pound for pound guy in his sport?
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