- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
0
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:26 pm to dukke v
Number 1 - You said top 15.
Number 2 - Here are the 6 players who have 3 or more MVPs and two or more Finals MVPs.
Russell
Jabbar
Bird
Magic
MJ
Bron
Facts >>>> opinion.
Number 2 - Here are the 6 players who have 3 or more MVPs and two or more Finals MVPs.
Russell
Jabbar
Bird
Magic
MJ
Bron
Facts >>>> opinion.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:30 pm to Solo
Not to make it a Bird vs Lebron thing, but it's fascinating that Lebron has already played nearly 200 more games than Bird. Bird basically played 11.5 seasons, which is lower than some comparable players. I feel like an argument for him is one that excludes longevity as a factor in greatness, which is fine but should be pointed out.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:44 pm to americanoutlaw
Of all the all time greats in the top ten Bird's longevity is definitely the shortest. Some of that is due to injuries some of that is due to not coming into zthe league until he was 23.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:46 pm to LittleRockHog501
quote:
Of all the all time greats in the top ten Bird's longevity is definitely the shortest. Some of that is due to injuries some of that is due to not coming into zthe league until he was 23.
I"m sure having a legendary beer drinking ability made at least a small difference too
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:54 pm to LittleRockHog501
Birds career was cut short by his back. Had he not fricked up his back who knows how long he would have played. But he has said multiple times had Len bias not died, he would have retired sooner.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:58 pm to RobbBobb
Magic Johnson being a great basketball player, does not mean he always has the most accurate opinions.
See: Pretty much everything he's ever said.
See: Pretty much everything he's ever said.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 9:59 pm to Kracka
quote:
But that's ok. He was an all time great, one of the best ever. He doesn't have to be 1. But for people to say this guy was over rated is ridiculous.
Dude, an overrated/underrated statement will always be relative to where someone has them.
So, if someone really is stating that Bird is number one overall, then yes he is overrated. That doesn't mean his career was shite but to say he's number one is absolutely overrating him.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:22 pm to dukke v
Russell (No. He was never even a finals MVP, despite 11 wins)
Hakeem (Really? No)
Shaq (No. free throws man, free throws)
Jabber (No. His teams didnt make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons during his prime)
Bron (Not yet)
Kobe (Just No. MVP just 1 time out of 20 years)
Duncan (went 11 years without an MVP recognition?)
Even Lebron agrees with Magic Johnson.
So if Magic and Lebron both agree, pardon me if I take their word for it over yours
Hakeem (Really? No)
Shaq (No. free throws man, free throws)
Jabber (No. His teams didnt make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons during his prime)
Bron (Not yet)
Kobe (Just No. MVP just 1 time out of 20 years)
Duncan (went 11 years without an MVP recognition?)
Even Lebron agrees with Magic Johnson.
quote:
He constructed his "Mount Rushmore" of historical hoops greats. The quartet included Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson
So if Magic and Lebron both agree, pardon me if I take their word for it over yours
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:41 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
3× NBA champion (1981, 1984, 1986)
2× NBA Finals MVP (1984, 1986)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1984–1986)
12× NBA All-Star (1980–1988, 1990–1992)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1982)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1980)
3× NBA 3-Point Shootout champion (1986–1988)
AP Athlete of the Year (1986)
Lebron:
4x NBA MVP
3x NBA Champ
3x finals Mvp
13X NBA All star
2x NBA all star MVP
NBA rookie of the year
2X AP athlete of the year
6x All MVP defense (vs 3 for bird)
12x all NBA (vs 10 for bird)
Career averages of 27.1, 7.3 rebounds, and 7.0 assists, PER of 27, 40 player of the month awards. Bird had 24.3, 10, and 6 with a PER of 23.5 and 7 player of the month awards. Lebron has a win share value of 205.4 compared to 145.8.
Lebron has more seasons at a high level than Bird played in his career.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 9:18 am to americanoutlaw
quote:
Lebron has more seasons
People seem to forget that Lebron never went to college. And got 4 more years than Larry Legend did. In Lebron's first 4 years:
Didn't make the playoffs for 2 years (Bird every year)
Made one Finals (Bird won a championship, and went to 3 conf championships)
1 NBA first team (Bird had 3)
At this age in Bird's career, he was done. You give him 4 more years during his prime, and he would have more MVPs, championships, stats, wins, etc. And Bird never went championship shopping. Celtics had the greatest turnaround in NBA history his first year, and was built around him after that
We will see how this year turns out, and what LJ does before retirement. Because in 9 years in Cleveland he's only won 1 title
Posted on 4/26/17 at 9:41 am to RobbBobb
I didn't forget that, I just don't find it to be particularly relevant. Even if you give bird 4 more years, that's 15.5 NBA seasons, which Lebron will eclipse shortly since he's on year 14. You also can't complain about him playing in college then compare the results of an 18-21 year old Lebron versus a 23-26 Bird.
Why would bird go "championship shopping"? His teams had McHale, Ainge, Dennis johnson, Parrish, and Walton. He played for arguably the best run franchise in the league at the time.
Go look at the 07 cavs roster or any cavs roster has had and compare it to the celtics championship rosters, you really think Lebron had better teammates? Hell, he averaged a 38, 8, and 8 in 09 and they still lost in the second round. His 2nd best player on many cavs' teams was either no Williams or zydrunas ilgauskas.
Why would bird go "championship shopping"? His teams had McHale, Ainge, Dennis johnson, Parrish, and Walton. He played for arguably the best run franchise in the league at the time.
Go look at the 07 cavs roster or any cavs roster has had and compare it to the celtics championship rosters, you really think Lebron had better teammates? Hell, he averaged a 38, 8, and 8 in 09 and they still lost in the second round. His 2nd best player on many cavs' teams was either no Williams or zydrunas ilgauskas.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 10:12 am to americanoutlaw
Lebron is 7th all time in scoring, 3rd in playoff scoring (will end this season at #1), 12th in assists, 3rd in playoff assists, 71st in rebounds, 7th in playoff rebounds, 20th in steals, 3rd in playoff steals, 127th in blocks, 7th in win shares, 1st in playoff win shares
Bird is 32nd in scoring, 10th in playoff scoring, 40th in assists, 6th in playoff assists, 52nd in rebounds, 11th in playoff rebounds, 34th in steals, 8th in playoff steals, 149th in blocks, 24th in win shares, 11th in playoff win shares.
It's possible that he would have more stats than Lebron if he played 15.5 NBA seasons, but his career averages are lower in points, assists, win shares per 48, and equal for steals and blocks. LeBron actually has a higher fg % and efg% than bird, although bird shoots better from 3 and at the FT line (obviously bird is the better shooter).
Bird is 32nd in scoring, 10th in playoff scoring, 40th in assists, 6th in playoff assists, 52nd in rebounds, 11th in playoff rebounds, 34th in steals, 8th in playoff steals, 149th in blocks, 24th in win shares, 11th in playoff win shares.
It's possible that he would have more stats than Lebron if he played 15.5 NBA seasons, but his career averages are lower in points, assists, win shares per 48, and equal for steals and blocks. LeBron actually has a higher fg % and efg% than bird, although bird shoots better from 3 and at the FT line (obviously bird is the better shooter).
This post was edited on 4/26/17 at 10:15 am
Posted on 4/26/17 at 10:14 am to RobbBobb
Larry Bird is one of the greats. You could rank him anywhere from 4-10 IMO.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 3:15 pm to Easy
quote:
Most overrated player ever. I would take Bernard King in his prime over Bird.
Not if you were smart. And I loooove me some BK, and BK is one of the best pure scorers the league has ever had, but Bird is the better all around player by some margin.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 4:23 pm to RobbBobb
quote:Who forgets that the most hyped high school player of all time, who had the best high school to nba transition forgot to go to college?
People seem to forget that Lebron never went to college
quote:But then Larry got to enter the league close to the age he was entering his prime, so he would likely have had much worse statistics. Lebron had the best transition, and his rookie season was significantly worse than any other season. Despite that his averages are still high.
And got 4 more years than Larry Legend did. In Lebron's first 4 years:
quote:Yeah. And they also added Pistol Pete and ML Carr, and Bird was 4 years older than Lebron. Not to mention the Cavs were a 17 win season the year before, and while the 29 win Celtics weren't very good, they were still considerably better than the Cavs.
Didn't make the playoffs for 2 years (Bird every year)
Besides 6/11 teams made the EC playoffs in 79-80 compared to 8/15 in 03-04 so it was slightly easier to make it anyways.
quote:Except players don't hit their primes until their mid 20's which was when Bird was entering the league. His cumulative stats would have been better, but his averages would have likely been much lower.
You give him 4 more years during his prime
Posted on 4/26/17 at 4:44 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
He constructed his "Mount Rushmore" of historical hoops greats. The quartet included Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Russell Westbrook
Posted on 4/26/17 at 5:03 pm to redfishfan
I agree that he's somewhere between 4-10 on the All-Time list. This thread has me thinking back to those great Celtics and Lakers teams in the '80s. Perhaps it was because I was a Lakers fan at the time, but I feel like Magic's teams had much more overall talent than the Celtics.
Old Kareem was still a much better player than Chief
IMO, Worthy and McHale cancelled each other out
Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, AC Green, Rambis were better than the DJ, Ainge, Sichting group.
Maybe it was because Magic wasn't a great scorer but I sort of think (now) that Bird was a little better overall but played with a lesser supporting cast.
Old Kareem was still a much better player than Chief
IMO, Worthy and McHale cancelled each other out
Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, AC Green, Rambis were better than the DJ, Ainge, Sichting group.
Maybe it was because Magic wasn't a great scorer but I sort of think (now) that Bird was a little better overall but played with a lesser supporting cast.
Posted on 4/26/17 at 5:17 pm to RobbBobb
I would have liked to have seen Bird, Pistol Pete and Jerry West play the entirety of the their careers in the 3 point era. That said and despite Jordan's game being a bit archaic in the current NBA (he just didn't shoot enough 3s that one Portland game notwithstanding) its not really close.
Bird was good but he was also lucky in the same way a truly great back to the basket center would be lucky now- there wasn't a ton of athletic parity at his position. Put Draymond or Kawhi on Bird and I think he gets his but I don't think its nearly as easy. Bird vs. 80s Forwards was like Wilt vs. 50s and 60s Centers.
Oh and Bird straight up compared prime athletic Jordan to God, not to another player, but God. Praise doesn't get much higher than that.
Bird was good but he was also lucky in the same way a truly great back to the basket center would be lucky now- there wasn't a ton of athletic parity at his position. Put Draymond or Kawhi on Bird and I think he gets his but I don't think its nearly as easy. Bird vs. 80s Forwards was like Wilt vs. 50s and 60s Centers.
Oh and Bird straight up compared prime athletic Jordan to God, not to another player, but God. Praise doesn't get much higher than that.
This post was edited on 4/26/17 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 4/26/17 at 5:20 pm to RobbBobb
quote:Bird turned 23 in December of his rookie season; LeBron turned 23 in December of his fifth season. Now if you want to compare those 4 years, LeBron had 3 MVPs, a finals MVP, 4 times first team All-NBA, 4 times first team all NBA defense, an NBA championship, 2 finals appearances, and 3 conferences championship appearances.
Made one Finals (Bird won a championship, and went to 3 conf championships)
1 NBA first team (Bird had 3)
Page 3 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News