re: How do y'all rate Nolan Ryan as a pitcher?

its the Ryan Express


and Robin Ventura

He’s not even a top 10 pitcher in my opinion.

That’s some good stuff.

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6th in career WAR for pitchers. I'd say he was ok.

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What's interesting about that link: Randy Johnson is one spot ahead at #5

In August 1992 Nolan and Rangers pitching coach Tom House helped Randy with his mechanics. They helped polish The Big Unit.

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Robin Ventura's biggest mistake was charging that mound...

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Yeah he had no interest in charging - he probably was not even really mad I think he ran out there out of obligation - probably had been conversation in the dugout about it - there was no aggressiveness on his part as he settled meekly into that headlock.

Ryan probably hurt his knuckles more hitting the top of his head than Ventura was hurt by those punches.

I always chuckle at the shine Ryan gets from this. Has let's say Frank Thomas charged his arse with some actual intention - that would not have gone well for Nolan,.

You’re holding up the Big Red Machine, the Gooden Mets and the early 1990s Braves as standards?

From 1978 to 1993, the teams for which Nolan Ryan pitched were 1,322-1,209 for a .522 winning percentage and went to the postseason four times. No, they weren’t the great teams of history, but they were not average to mediocre teams.

I’ve tried to give Ryan his props but his acolytes will twist themselves into contortions trying to spin things to say that he was the GOAT.

The reality is that for a lot of those years with the Angels, Frank Tanana, before he hurt his arm, was a better PITCHER, not no-hitter thrower, fan entertainer or batter striker-outer, than Ryan, he had 98% of Ryan’s speed and 1,000% better control. And for a lot of those years for the Astros, Joe Niekro and Mike Scott were the aces of the staff, not Ryan. But of course neither of them had the potential to throw a no-hitter or strike out 20 batters on a given night, they just won which again is the point of playing the game.

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522 winning percentage and went to the postseason four times. No, they weren’t the great teams of history, but they were not average to mediocre teams.

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Over a 16 year period that's the definition of average. Ok, so they might've been a small tad above average, but not elite or nowhere close to it.

The point is that IMO Ryan’s won-loss record was not horrifically impacted by the teams he played for, many of whom he was actually the No. 2 or No. 3 person on the staff.

Now you want an example of a truly great, historically underrated pitcher whose record was impacted by the s**t teams he played for? Phil Niekro.

Look, Ryan was absolutely great. He was a no-brainer first ballot Hall of Famer. I understand for whatever reason, the man is not just loved he is absolutely adored and revered by fans of my age. He did things no other pitcher will ever do again.

But you give me the choice of any pitcher in the history of the sport to throw a seventh game of a World Series for me, he’s absolutely the last pitcher I would take because he’d be equally likely to throw a no-hitter or walk the ball park, and style points and entertainment value are irrelevant in a Series Game 7, all that matters is the W.