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Message
re: ESPN Top 74 NBA players of all time- Updated
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:36 pm to NorthEndZone
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:36 pm to NorthEndZone
Broke it down into three groups for easier comparison of similar style/sized players. It seems easier to rank similar players than to rank a point guard versus a center - JMO
Guards
1 MJ
5 Magic
9 Kobe
13 Curry
16 West
25 Leonard
26 Wade
28 Stockton
29 Iverson
30 Nash
31 Thomas
32 Harden
33 Havlicek
35 Kidd
39 Frazier
40 Paul
41 Cousy
42 Westbrook
47 Gervin
49 Miller
53 Payton
56 Allen
64 Monroe
68 Pistol
70 Parker
72 Lillard
Wings/Forwards
2 Lebron
7 Bird
11 Robertson
14 Durant
15 Dr. J
21 Pippen
22 Baylor
23 Barkley
27 Giannis
43 Barry
46 Dominique
52 McGrady
54 Pierce
55 Carter
57 Drexler
58 Ginobili
67 English
69 King
Centers and 'Big' Men
3 Kareem
4 Russell
6 Wilt
8 Duncan
10 Shaq
12 Hakeem
17 Malone (Mailman)
18 Malone (Moses)
19 Dirk
20 Garnett
24 Robinson
34 Mikan
36 McHale
37 Ewing
38 Pettit
44 Hayes
45 Davis
48 Walton
50 Unseld
51 Worthy
59 McAdoo
60 Reed
61 Parish
62 Rodman
63 Mourning
65 Gasol
66 Cowens
71 Lanier
73 Mutombo
74 Gilmore
Guards
1 MJ
5 Magic
9 Kobe
13 Curry
16 West
25 Leonard
26 Wade
28 Stockton
29 Iverson
30 Nash
31 Thomas
32 Harden
33 Havlicek
35 Kidd
39 Frazier
40 Paul
41 Cousy
42 Westbrook
47 Gervin
49 Miller
53 Payton
56 Allen
64 Monroe
68 Pistol
70 Parker
72 Lillard
Wings/Forwards
2 Lebron
7 Bird
11 Robertson
14 Durant
15 Dr. J
21 Pippen
22 Baylor
23 Barkley
27 Giannis
43 Barry
46 Dominique
52 McGrady
54 Pierce
55 Carter
57 Drexler
58 Ginobili
67 English
69 King
Centers and 'Big' Men
3 Kareem
4 Russell
6 Wilt
8 Duncan
10 Shaq
12 Hakeem
17 Malone (Mailman)
18 Malone (Moses)
19 Dirk
20 Garnett
24 Robinson
34 Mikan
36 McHale
37 Ewing
38 Pettit
44 Hayes
45 Davis
48 Walton
50 Unseld
51 Worthy
59 McAdoo
60 Reed
61 Parish
62 Rodman
63 Mourning
65 Gasol
66 Cowens
71 Lanier
73 Mutombo
74 Gilmore
2
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:36 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Mike is 6 for 6 and lebron can never come close to that.
This is one of the single stupidest arguments in this discussion in my opinion. Losing prior to the finals is better than losing in the finals. Makes perfect sense
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:40 pm to HippieTiger
No. Not when you consider the competition. The East was terrible and lebron got his arse kicked in the finals many times, not just beaten. Whooped. It is safe to assume he wouldn’t have even made the finals more than a few of those years if he was in the west. Lebron should not be rewarded bc the competiton was crap. Unless we wanted to put UCF in the playoffs the other year when they ran the table with a soft schedule.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:45 pm to dukke v
quote:
Well it was ALOT harder for MJ to even get to the finals when he played.
Eh. I think MJ's Eastern competition is overrated.
The 98 Pacers were good, but not great.
The 96-97 Heat were pretty generic.
The 95-96 Magic were very good at full strength, but Grant blew his elbow out early in Game 1 and they had to start Jon Koncack the rest of the way.
The 92-93 Knicks...they're a uglier version of the Pacers.
The 91-92 Cavs were pretty generic.
The 90-91 Pistons were on their last legs.
Comparatively, the 2007 Pistons were as good as anyone MJ faced. The 2011 Bulls, 2012 Celts and 13 and 14 Pacers were too.
I would agree the Hawks, Raptors and Celts from 15 to 18 were generic in the sense the 92 Cavs and 97 Heat were.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:48 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Lebron should not be rewarded
He isn't being rewarded at all. It seems more like he is being punished and scrutinized for it
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:49 pm to HippieTiger
No. Every advanced metric you can find has mike as being better. All different formulas, all come to the same conclusion, Jordan.
When one metric says guy a was better than B, it doesn’t say too too much. When they ALL say one guy was better than the other, well that Gives you your answer. .
When one metric says guy a was better than B, it doesn’t say too too much. When they ALL say one guy was better than the other, well that Gives you your answer. .
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:51 pm to HippieTiger
If you are going to consider his competition in the finals series he couldn’t even make competitive, you also gotta consider his competition to get out the East all those years. Weak as any conference in any pro spor probably ever.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:51 pm to LSUSaintsHornets
quote:
KG at 20 seems low to me.
As in you think he should be 19 or lower or you think he should be 21 or higher?
I think he should be around 30th.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:53 pm to Boomshockalocka
Link me these metrics you speak of, please. Also, those don't take into account the competition, rules changes, etc. People in general get bigger, faster, and stronger over time. The NBA of today is leaps and bounds ahead of the athletes playing in that era. There was regularly more white dudes starting in that era than are on an entire roster today. As much as you may not want it to be this is ultimately subjective and opinion more than factual.
This post was edited on 5/13/20 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:59 pm to QJenk
AD better than Clyde Drexler? Lol
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:04 pm to NorthEndZone
my 2 cents
thought that he was ranked to high, don't think he should be ahead of Carter, Payton, Drexler, Pierce
thought that he was ranked to low, he had a better career than Kidd, Giannis, McHale, Ewing
quote:
52 McGrady
thought that he was ranked to high, don't think he should be ahead of Carter, Payton, Drexler, Pierce
quote:
38 Pettit
thought that he was ranked to low, he had a better career than Kidd, Giannis, McHale, Ewing
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:09 pm to dukke v
quote:
Magic revolutionized the NBA to heights it had ever seen. A 6’9 point guard that could dribble and get rebounds and have the time if his life while doing it?????? His performance in game 6 of the 1980 NBA finals is one of the best in NBA history when it needed a shot in the arm.
all that's true and he was great in the game 6 but I'd still rank Jabbar for sure and maybe, maybe Bryant ahead of him on an all time list.
Top 4
*Olajuwan
Jordan
James
Jabbar
*just kidding but i'd have him in the top 10.
quote:
It was on tape delay..... after that those tape delay games were a thing of the past. Magic is #2......
I'm pretty sure they still did tape delay as late as 1983, they used to start games at 730 local time, so when they were in LA it started at 930 CST 1030 in the EST, the 84 Finals i think it was all live though still started late when in the west coast.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:09 pm to HippieTiger
PER
WS/48
BPM
OBPM
DBPM
ETC
ETC
ETC
All rate metrics. The only ones lebron has him on are the counting ones that have a longevity factor.
All mike.
WS/48
BPM
OBPM
DBPM
ETC
ETC
ETC
All rate metrics. The only ones lebron has him on are the counting ones that have a longevity factor.
All mike.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:13 pm to NorthEndZone
quote:
Broke it down into three groups for easier comparison of similar style/sized players. It seems easier to rank similar players than to rank a point guard versus a center - JMO
Guards
1 MJ
5 Magic
Forwards
2 Lebron
7 Bird
Center
3 Kareem
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:17 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
All rate metrics. The only ones lebron has him on are the counting ones that have a longevity factor.
This just isn't true. LeBron's average VORP is better than MJ's. So is his assist % and rebound %, again in yearly average.
I said earlier in this thread that I had no issue with MJ at #1, but you can put him there without misrepresenting the stats.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:20 pm to Boomshockalocka
Then link them. And not from some shitty second rate rockets blog. I want national websites or at least the other team’s local newspaper sportswriter.
You’re full of shite and you know it.
You’re full of shite and you know it.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:21 pm to dukke v
quote:
For the era that he played in and the things he did for the sport he is #2. We all know the saying” I want to be like Mike”. BUT once people saw what Magic could do game after game it was obvious that at the time people wanted to be like Magic
Magic came first but before Jordan it was Dr J that everyone wanted to be like. You could make a case that Magic was #2 in that era Jabbar had peaked already, by the 3rd title in 85 at the latest it was Magics team, but this is all time and I give Kareem the edge.
quote:
Well it was ALOT harder for MJ to even get to the finals when he played. Impaired to LeBron. Once there he dominated. LeBron???? Had an easier riad to the finals and has not been as good at that time as MJ was. It’s pretty simple.
in the 80s it was harder but by 92 the Celtics and Pistons were done. In the Finals the only team Jordan played that had even won anything was the 91 Lakers and that was a few months before Magic retired with HIV Kareem long gone, not the same team.
James has faced and beaten (and yes lost as well) 2 dynasties in the Finals, San Antonio and Golden State. *I would argue Jordan and the Bulls did not face a team as good as SA or Gs in the Finals or ECF. Phoenix is probably the best team they faced
*Please note this is not saying that James is better but rather dispelling an argument that he's had an easier road.
This post was edited on 5/13/20 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:24 pm to QJenk
How is Kawhi below Kevin Durant?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:24 pm to Rep520
VORP is a cumulative stat. It is influenced by total minutes played . BPM is a per minute VORP. Don’t worry, lots of people don’t realize this.
Jordan has him beat.
Assist and rebound % go into all of the other metrics. They are a part of them. The ones that are all encompassing all have Jordan ahead.
Jordan has him beat.
Assist and rebound % go into all of the other metrics. They are a part of them. The ones that are all encompassing all have Jordan ahead.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 1:25 pm to TheeRealCarolina
Put up money bro otherwise go to basketball reference yourself.
otherwise go to basketball reference yourself. 
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