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2
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:37 pm to dukke v
quote:
WHAT??? Any player that hits more Hr's than Singles in a season is NOT a GREAT year.
You never cease to amaze me
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:38 pm to Baloo
To the OP,
You're ignoring all the other changes that occurred in baseball over that time period with the lowering of the bound and the changes in sizes of the stadiums. Hell ATL stadium was known as the "launching pad" that didn't open until mid-late 60s. Everyone hit more homers there. Bonds may have hit 80 hrs if he had played there.
You're ignoring all the other changes that occurred in baseball over that time period with the lowering of the bound and the changes in sizes of the stadiums. Hell ATL stadium was known as the "launching pad" that didn't open until mid-late 60s. Everyone hit more homers there. Bonds may have hit 80 hrs if he had played there.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:39 pm to OBUDan
quote:
the manny/chad ogea (lake charles boy) story is still my favorite.
What's the story?
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:40 pm to OBUDan
quote:
He curved back down to the 40s the next 3 years
Has a lot to do with his record-setting walks those years. I honestly believe he would have hit 75+ every year from '01-'04 if they had actually pitched to him. That was the most amazing part of his streak--he just didn't miss any pitch. If you threw it in his wheelhouse he was going to piss on it.
Barry Bonds
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:40 pm to amiznit
quote:
What's the story?
when OJ was in the bronco chase, manny thought they were talking about O-Gea (his teammate at the time)
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:42 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Dan, you really need to check out that link I posted on page 3...
Meant to open it earlier, looking at it now.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:43 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
Has a lot to do with his record-setting walks those years. I honestly believe he would have hit 75+ every year from '01-'04 if they had actually pitched to him. That was the most amazing part of his streak--he just didn't miss any pitch. If you threw it in his wheelhouse he was going to piss on it.
It truly was amazing. I've never seen anything like it.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:47 pm to C
quote:Also, thin handled bats, smaller strike zones, and expansion pitching.
You're ignoring all the other changes that occurred in baseball over that time period with the lowering of the bound and the changes in sizes of the stadiums. Hell ATL stadium was known as the "launching pad" that didn't open until mid-late 60s. Everyone hit more homers there. Bonds may have hit 80 hrs if he had played there.
You don't go far enough on stadiums. The Launching Pad wouldn't be special today. There are 20 launiching pads now. Bonds moved from Candlestick, a great pitcher's park, to Pac Bell -- a place where I could probably jack it out.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 12:48 pm to Baloo
pac bell's right field was also built specifically for barry bonds
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
to clarify tim kurkjian's comments earlier in the thread: i don't think he's ever said what "he" would do. rather, he comments on what the HOF voters will do. i don't know that i've ever heard him comment specifically on his vote.
on kornheiser's radio show, he said "the voters aren't putting them in". kornheiser asked about the veteran's committee, and kurkjian's reply was that the veteran's committee is even more antagonistic to the steroid era than the writers.
i tend to take the joe posnanski view that's been echoed throughout here, you have to grit your teeth and judge the guys against the era they played in.
what's always amazed me is the wildly different attitude you see to steroids between the NFL and MLB. i think maybe it has to do w/ PED's allowing an assault on the meaningful records that baseball has and football doesn't. i also think part of it is a reaction to MLB refusing to act for so long.
on kornheiser's radio show, he said "the voters aren't putting them in". kornheiser asked about the veteran's committee, and kurkjian's reply was that the veteran's committee is even more antagonistic to the steroid era than the writers.
i tend to take the joe posnanski view that's been echoed throughout here, you have to grit your teeth and judge the guys against the era they played in.
what's always amazed me is the wildly different attitude you see to steroids between the NFL and MLB. i think maybe it has to do w/ PED's allowing an assault on the meaningful records that baseball has and football doesn't. i also think part of it is a reaction to MLB refusing to act for so long.
This post was edited on 4/17/11 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:29 pm to oilfieldtiger
quote:
what's always amazed me is the wildly different attitude you see to steroids between the NFL and MLB. i think maybe it has to do w/ PED's allowing an assault on the meaningful records that baseball has and football doesn't.
i do think this matters. no sport focuses on the "big stats" like baseball, but i think that falls into part of my argument
that's part of the history/tradition of baseball as a pure sport of american folklore
baseball really is an everyman's game, and steroids, on their face, seem to change this (they really don't, but people perceive steroids this way). in fooball, a 220-lb genetic freak of a lb becoming 240 isn't going to ripple the same way, b/c none of us will be that 220-lb guy in the first place
steroids in general, to me, are just the dividing line in our hero worship, and it shows me the values the public seems to value
we want our heroes to be like us, but better. hard workers who put in the time and become great
we have a hard time accepting the truly talented freaks, b/c they're different than us. basketball is the worst. football is next. baseball is a distant 3rd.
the problem with steroids is that they make the normal guys into freaks and the freaks into superheroes. even if they were legal in sports, some guys wouldn't use them. some would. we wouldn't know who to cheer for. the confusion would be too much, and we don't like that. we like to think everyone is on the same playing field, and hard work and sacrifice put us over the top. it's the american ideal.
the irony is that steroids alone do nothing. steroids + hard work can make you into something amazing. this is lost on the general public (and baseball writers on the whole). the same "hard work ethic" logic applies, but it's ignored
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:29 pm to sgallo3
No Aaron played in a pitcher's ballpark for most of his career with the Braves. When the team moved to Atlanta, they got to play in a place called Fulton County Stadium which was known as the launching pad because the ball just flew out of that ballpark. Aaron got to play in that stadium from age 32 on and subsequently, his power numbers increased even though he was going through a decline phase like every other player his age. Just take a look at his batting average. Aaron hit over .310 only once during the last 11 years of his career. He hit over .310 in five consecutive seasons and 10 out of 11 seasons before that. It doesn't really matter though. Bonds was the better player even without the steroids.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:30 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
It doesn't really matter though. Bonds was the better player even without the steroids.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:32 pm to dukke v
How could you be that obtuse? Look at Bonds' numbers from 1990 to 1999.
This post was edited on 4/17/11 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:35 pm to oilfieldtiger
quote:
Did Hank Aaron use steroids?
to clarify tim kurkjian's comments earlier in the thread: i don't think he's ever said what "he" would do. rather, he comments on what the HOF voters will do. i don't know that i've ever heard him comment specifically on his vote.
This was on Monday night baseball game, the night Sam Fuld hit 2 2Bs, 1 Hr, 1 3B.
He said distinctly he would not vote for Manny, and no one he has talked to that has a vote would either, but that he has voted for McGwire and Palmeiro.
Wish I had a video...
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:37 pm to Baloo
One other thing that rarely gets mentioned are the bats. Spcifically the wood, Bonds was using maple bats, which is a strong wood than ash.
People also don't give him or McGwire enough credit for their swings.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:38 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Look at Bonds' numbers from 1990 to 1999.
I have and he IS a GREAT BALLPLAYER. But not as good over a 20 year period than Aaron. EVEN without the ROIDS Aaron was better. The shame of this thread is that there are way to many people who WON't look back, OR were not even alive to discuss this. ROIDS RUNIED THE GAME nad BONDS HEAD size is a PERFECT example.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:38 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Dan, you really need to check out that link I posted on page 3...
great link, thanks
Posted on 4/17/11 at 1:44 pm to dukke v
quote:
ROIDS RUNIED THE GAME
Au contraire, steroids saved the game. Baseball suffered from the 1994 strike, and the home run chase between Sosa and McGwire helped bring back baseball. The Ripken streak was also a big moment, but the home run chase really brought it back. Also, steroids were not a legit issue to the fans until the 2000's, which is after the fact that they have already saved America's pastime.
This post was edited on 4/17/11 at 1:46 pm
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