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Started By
Message
re: Did Hank Aaron use steroids?
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
performance enhancing is performance enhancing
2
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:04 am to CurDog
quote:If we're using that argument, neither did Bonds. The Cream and the Clear, by a quirk of definitions, were not legally steroids until 2006 or 2007. Before, they were not steroids under the legal definition.
not supporting steriod use in any sport but if Hank was on the juice he didnt break any law. They were not deemed a controlled substance until 1990
What I hate most about the steroid moralists is the innuendo towards every player, trashing people's reputations without any actual evidence. We just "know" people used steroids.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:04 am to Hot Carl
so what are we going to do?
establish a factor that each performance enhancing drug affects your game, then adjust your #s by this (for only the years when you were using said drug)?
establish a factor that each performance enhancing drug affects your game, then adjust your #s by this (for only the years when you were using said drug)?
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:06 am to Hot Carl
I just find it hard to believe hank was putting up HRs at a higher pace at 39 than Albert Pujols has the last 2 years in his prime... U can say its because he was a phenom but so is pujols and he has been weight training his entire career
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
performance enhancing is performance enhancing
which is why I don't know why more people don't get worked up over the things players put in their bodies from the local GNC.
Seems we are talking about a matter of degrees than any real distinction other than legal
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:08 am to Baloo
quote:Do you think Bonds/Clemens used steroids?
Baloo
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Do what we always did: use an era adjustment. Every era is different and all numbers are context dependent. It's not hard, and we've always done it. Hitting 30 home runs means something entirely different in 1915, 1935, 1965, and 1995.
so what are we going to do?
The numbers have always been dependent on the era.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:12 am to Baloo
quote:
The numbers have always been dependent on the era.
requires sports writers to use critical thinking, something they are not good at.
They are more than willing to punish every NFL WR after 1985 for playing in pass oriented offenses but they aren't willing to apply the same distinction for QB's that played in the same era.
Asking them to make distinctions is to difficult a task for them
This post was edited on 4/17/11 at 11:13 am
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:12 am to sgallo3
quote:
I just find it hard to believe hank was putting up HRs at a higher pace at 39
When they moved to Atlanta the stadium was much different. They didn't call it The Launching pad for nothin.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:13 am to Baloo
oh i mean in terms of HOF discussion
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:14 am to sgallo3
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:17 am to jacks40
quote:Ain't that the truth. Their most recent HOF selections have been practically thumbing their nose against sabermetrics. I honestly don't bleieve Dawson and Rice make the Hall of Fame without the modern SABR movement. It is that reactionary of a selection, they are doing it to spite the young turks with all of their fancy numbers and learnin'.
requires sports writers to use critical thinking, something they are not good at.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:20 am to Sophandros
You can't change history. If baseball didn't want to glorify these suspected/guilty steroid users they should have had a better testing/enforcement policy.
It is stupid to not call Bonds the homerun king IMO.
It is stupid to not call Bonds the homerun king IMO.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:20 am to Baloo
nobody clings to the past and rejects rational thought more than baseball writers
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:20 am to dukke v
And how much did expansion and diluted pitching staffs add to 755?
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:21 am to Baloo
quote:
What I hate most about the steroid moralists is the innuendo towards every player, trashing people's reputations without any actual evidence. We just "know" people used steroids.
I agree, but I dont buy the excuse that Bonds "didnt" know what the cream was.
I have no doubt that steriod use was/is rampant in many pro sports, fortunately for some players they have not been caught.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:23 am to COTiger
quote:
And how much did expansion and diluted pitching staffs add to 755?
Not at all. He did for over twenty years and was one of the most consistent players EVER!!!!! Bonds NOT so much.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:25 am to CurDog
quote:
I agree, but I dont buy the excuse that Bonds "didnt" know what the cream was.
that was his legal excuse for not going to jail in a witch hunt.
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:27 am to jacks40
quote:
I agree, but I dont buy the excuse that Bonds "didnt" know what the cream was.
that was his legal excuse for not going to jail in a witch hunt.
Whatever, still lame
Posted on 4/17/11 at 11:27 am to Hot Carl
quote:
-but Hank Aaron is severely underrated as an all-time great overall baseball player.
I would attribute that to the Milwaukee market. Mays was both NYC and west coast. Mantle was NYC.
By the time Aaron reached Atlanta he was on the decline, especially as a base stealer. Plus, the early Atlanta teams were really bad.
Also, when Aaron made his World Series appearances in 57 and 58 almost nobody had a TV set. Mays and Mantle got a lot more TV exposure in their prime years.
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