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Started By
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re: Derek Jeter was not a good shortstop. Convince me I'm wrong.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 12:36 am to CoyoteSong
Posted on 7/11/22 at 12:36 am to CoyoteSong
Michael Jordan laughing gif
0
Posted on 7/11/22 at 12:58 am to BeepNode
quote:
What gives
Extremely likable and marketable guy playing for one of the most historic and stories franchises in all of sports that happens to be located in the biggest media market.
This post was edited on 7/11/22 at 1:03 am
Posted on 7/11/22 at 1:05 am to DiamondDog
quote:
310 with a .377 career OBP is pretty insanely good. Nobody is arguing whether he was HOF worthy.
You haven't read this thread. Lots of people are arguing he's only in because he was a Yankee.
I can't stand the Yankees, but these people have no idea what they're talking about when they say that. They also don't remember how many hits he had in the playoffs, when it matters the most. Did the media overrate him? Of course they did, just like they do with all good players on big market teams. But he is 100% deserving of being in the Hall.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 1:23 am to BeepNode
His bat got him into the hall...
But it all depends how you define a shortstop and value.
But it all depends how you define a shortstop and value.
quote:
Jeter's bat was a key cog in the Yankees' lineup during the dynasty era, but he gave much of that value back on the other side of the ball.
His offense was worth 163 runs above average from 1996-2001, but he was 66 runs worse than the average shortstop. After adjusting for position, that made him roughly 20 runs worse than the average fielder.
It's hard to say how heavily the Yankees front office weighed defensive metrics at this point, or if they even considered them at all.
This was right around the time of the Moneyball movement and before advanced statistics became widely accepted across baseball. Whether or not the Yankees were aware of it, the statistical evidence against Jeter's defense was starting to pile up.
Still, they continued to run him out there through the early aughts, and he continued to play a below-average shortstop.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 1:54 am to BeepNode
DJ was the best jump-thrower.
This post was edited on 7/11/22 at 1:56 am
Posted on 7/11/22 at 1:58 am to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
Barry Larkin never got a lot of credit either
He made the HOF
Posted on 7/11/22 at 3:41 am to CoyoteSong
quote:
Throughout his “Gold Glove” years, his DRS stood at -92, 204 runs worse than Pittsburgh Pirates shortstop Jack Wilson, who registered the most DRS (112) from 2004 to 2010.
Michael Young is a poor man’s Derek Jeter. His DRS at SS in the same span was -79, and he moved to 3B for two of those years.
He was a 7x All-Star with five of those appearances as a SS.
In that seven year span from ‘04-‘10, Derek Jeter was awarded five Gold Gloves. Michael Young was just as bad defensively at the position, yet somehow he also won a Gold Glove in 2008.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 4:29 am to Ghost of Colby
He’s a biracial angel.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 5:07 am to BeepNode
ARod’s fielding percentage was .001 higher.
.977 to .976
I don’t even want to hear about all the moneyball sabermetric crap. That’s the worst thing to ever happen to baseball.
The guy was an elite CLUTCH player. And I don’t even like the Yankees.
.977 to .976
I don’t even want to hear about all the moneyball sabermetric crap. That’s the worst thing to ever happen to baseball.
The guy was an elite CLUTCH player. And I don’t even like the Yankees.
This post was edited on 7/11/22 at 5:09 am
Posted on 7/11/22 at 5:52 am to BeepNode
I mean we can do statistics/mental gymnastics all day… Jeter was great ain’t no denying that
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:10 am to BeepNode
he was a good ss, but not a great defensive ss, like ESPN tries to sell you
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:13 am to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
Belongs in the Hall of Very Good Arguably one of the most overrated players in MLB history
You can say Jeter was overrated defensively, but to say that .310, 3400 hits, 1300 RBI, and 260 homers doesn’t belong in the HOF is rank insanity.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:25 am to BeepNode
I would say he was good but I'd also say IMHO he was overrated. Had he played in Cleveland he'd likely barely be remembered.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 6:27 am to BeepNode
He made some good plays defensively but he wasn’t special. His clutch bat made him a HOF. Also, he definitely lived up to being the #2 pick in his draft. The Stros took Phil Nevin haha.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 7:38 am to Honest Tune
Yankees would have done better to put him at third and put A-Rod at SS
Posted on 7/11/22 at 8:09 am to BeepNode
A shortstop named Joe Jones who played his career in Pittsburgh is getting into the HoF if he hit .310 with a .377 OBP, scored more than 1,900 runs and had more than 500 doubles in his career.
At the same time Jeter was never known for his defense and got plain bad toward the end and the Golden Gloves are laughable.
But he's an absolute Hall of Famer.
At the same time Jeter was never known for his defense and got plain bad toward the end and the Golden Gloves are laughable.
But he's an absolute Hall of Famer.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 8:11 am to KosmoCramer
Ozzie Smith was the greatest defensive shortstop ever born of a woman, by both the eye test and modern analytics. That's why he's in the Hall of Fame.
People think Bill Mazeroski's in the Hall of Fame because Ralph Terry happened to hang a slider to him in a game in 1960, but he's there because he's the greatest defensive second baseman ever born of a woman, by both the eye test and modern analytics.
If defense is an important part of the game, IMO the HoF is a place to recognize the truly elite performers there.
It's why Yadi Molina will be a first ballot choice ... mark it down ... no matter how many fans scream.
People think Bill Mazeroski's in the Hall of Fame because Ralph Terry happened to hang a slider to him in a game in 1960, but he's there because he's the greatest defensive second baseman ever born of a woman, by both the eye test and modern analytics.
If defense is an important part of the game, IMO the HoF is a place to recognize the truly elite performers there.
It's why Yadi Molina will be a first ballot choice ... mark it down ... no matter how many fans scream.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 8:23 am to InkStainedWretch
I'd like to know the average velocity those pitchers threw in the 50s/60s.
I watched that 1960 walkoff and it looks like that pitcher was throwing meatballs for the Yankees.
It honestly looked like a 55 mph slider.
I watched that 1960 walkoff and it looks like that pitcher was throwing meatballs for the Yankees.
It honestly looked like a 55 mph slider.
This post was edited on 7/11/22 at 8:24 am
Posted on 7/11/22 at 8:28 am to Lester Earl
Paul molitor was better than jeter.
Posted on 7/11/22 at 8:45 am to BeepNode
He wasnt Walt Weiss for sure, but steady and above average.
The end was ugly, as it is for most big stars
The end was ugly, as it is for most big stars
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