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CC Sabathia should not be in the HOF
Posted on 8/6/26 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 8/6/26 at 10:40 pm
Definitely not a first rounder at the very least ...
He won only one Cy Young Award in 19 seasons.
His career 116 ERA+ is good, but not exceptional for a Hall of Fame pitcher.
He never won an ERA title.
His peak was excellent but never historically dominant.
His 62.3 WAR is relatively modest for a Hall of Fame starting pitcher.
His JAWS is below the average Hall of Fame starting pitcher.
Much of his case depends on longevity and accumulated statistics.
Reaching 3,000 strikeouts makes his career appear more dominant than his rate statistics suggest.
His 251 wins benefited from pitching for several excellent teams.
He won only one World Series despite spending much of his career on contenders.
His 4.28 postseason ERA doesn't strengthen the argument for exceptional greatness.
He had several mediocre-to-poor seasons during the latter half of his career.
He was a very good ace for a long time, but being a longtime ace shouldn't by itself make someone a Hall of Famer.
If he would have pitched for the Rangers, Angels or Athletics, would he have made the HOF? No.
He won only one Cy Young Award in 19 seasons.
His career 116 ERA+ is good, but not exceptional for a Hall of Fame pitcher.
He never won an ERA title.
His peak was excellent but never historically dominant.
His 62.3 WAR is relatively modest for a Hall of Fame starting pitcher.
His JAWS is below the average Hall of Fame starting pitcher.
Much of his case depends on longevity and accumulated statistics.
Reaching 3,000 strikeouts makes his career appear more dominant than his rate statistics suggest.
His 251 wins benefited from pitching for several excellent teams.
He won only one World Series despite spending much of his career on contenders.
His 4.28 postseason ERA doesn't strengthen the argument for exceptional greatness.
He had several mediocre-to-poor seasons during the latter half of his career.
He was a very good ace for a long time, but being a longtime ace shouldn't by itself make someone a Hall of Famer.
If he would have pitched for the Rangers, Angels or Athletics, would he have made the HOF? No.
12
Posted on 8/6/26 at 10:49 pm to theballguy
Neither should dale murphy
Posted on 8/6/26 at 11:15 pm to theballguy
CC was a good pitcher for a long times, but he’s not HOF.
ETA: He did have the most baw moment of all time when he was an inning or two away from a mega bonus, but got tossed for plunking a batter after his teammate got hit. Or something like that.
ETA: He did have the most baw moment of all time when he was an inning or two away from a mega bonus, but got tossed for plunking a batter after his teammate got hit. Or something like that.
This post was edited on 8/6/26 at 11:18 pm
Posted on 8/6/26 at 11:16 pm to theballguy
Agreed. Unfortunately, for most sports, the Hall of Fame has become the Hall of longevity. You can tell the story of baseball without CC Sabathia. It’s just sad that such a lardass unathletic beta male with a 4.0 EERA is in the hall. Honestly, it should be renamed the low test Hall.
Posted on 8/6/26 at 11:45 pm to theballguy
I really don’t give two shits about the baseball hall of fame and what it takes to get inducted but the way CC Sabathia dragged Milwaukee into the post season in 2008 was insane. No one else could’ve done that and those few months he was with the Brewers were the most unbelievable few months I’ve ever seen out of a pitcher.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 12:46 am to theballguy
quote:
If he would have pitched for the Rangers, Angels or Athletics, would he have made the HOF? No.
He’s only in because he pitched for the Yankees. So much of the HOF voting has become longevity plus name recognition.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 1:30 am to theballguy
He's in it b/c he has 3,000 strikeouts.
The only two eligible w/3k who aren't in are Clemons b/c of the roids and Schilling b/c he's an insufferable a-hole who burned a lot of bridges.
at saying his wins aren't impressive b/c he played on good teams but then using a team accomplishment like "only" winning the WS once as a knock against him.
That's one more than hall of famers Nolan Ryan, Mike Mussina, Juan Marichal, Don Sutton, Phil Niekro, and Bert Blyleven. Also one more than Schilling who will probably eventually get in via vet committee once enough people who hate him personally no longer have votes.
The only two eligible w/3k who aren't in are Clemons b/c of the roids and Schilling b/c he's an insufferable a-hole who burned a lot of bridges.
quote:
His 251 wins benefited from pitching for several excellent teams.
He won only one World Series despite spending much of his career on contenders.
at saying his wins aren't impressive b/c he played on good teams but then using a team accomplishment like "only" winning the WS once as a knock against him. quote:
He won only one Cy Young Award in 19 seasons.
That's one more than hall of famers Nolan Ryan, Mike Mussina, Juan Marichal, Don Sutton, Phil Niekro, and Bert Blyleven. Also one more than Schilling who will probably eventually get in via vet committee once enough people who hate him personally no longer have votes.
This post was edited on 8/7/26 at 1:38 am
Posted on 8/7/26 at 5:20 am to theballguy
Honestly? I agree
1x Cy Young
6x all star in 19 total seasons
3 with Cleveland (8years)
3 with NY (11years)
250 wins and 3K strikeouts is solid though. I will give him that
But I was shocked to find out the Yankees retired his number as well
1x Cy Young
6x all star in 19 total seasons
3 with Cleveland (8years)
3 with NY (11years)
250 wins and 3K strikeouts is solid though. I will give him that
But I was shocked to find out the Yankees retired his number as well
Posted on 8/7/26 at 7:43 am to theballguy
The modern standard for HOF pitchers has shifted. It just so happens he is one of the few that checks a lot of the old metric boxes.
3,000k’s locks you in. Winning a Cy Young on top of that makes him an undeniable HOF’er.
Conversely Mike Mussina has neither milestone. He never led the AL in any relevant pitching category. He was a very good pitcher for a long time, was never, as you say, historically dominant. Was definitely a WAR baby who accumulated without widespread dominance, which is rare for a pitcher.
3,000k’s locks you in. Winning a Cy Young on top of that makes him an undeniable HOF’er.
Conversely Mike Mussina has neither milestone. He never led the AL in any relevant pitching category. He was a very good pitcher for a long time, was never, as you say, historically dominant. Was definitely a WAR baby who accumulated without widespread dominance, which is rare for a pitcher.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 7:45 am to DalenSA
quote:
3K strikeouts is solid though
“Solid” lol
There are 20 pitchers all time with 3,000 K’s.
They are all in the HOF except for Verlander & Scherzer, who will be when they retire. And Clemons & Schilling for their own reasons.
This post was edited on 8/7/26 at 7:48 am
Posted on 8/7/26 at 7:59 am to Schmelly
quote:
Neither should dale murphy
Braves HOF but that's about it.
But if he'd play for the Yankees or Dodgers, he'd probably be in it like Sabathia is.
How Sabathia got first round, I can only guess DEI
This post was edited on 8/7/26 at 8:01 am
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:02 am to Dr RC
quote:
That's one more than hall of famers Nolan Ryan, Mike Mussina, Juan Marichal, Don Sutton, Phil Niekro, and Bert Blyleven.
Aight, I'll stop you there.
These guys got in for stats outside of Cy Young. That should be obvious.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:13 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Solid” lol There are 20 pitchers all time with 3,000 K’s. They are all in the HOF except for Verlander & Scherzer, who will be when they retire. And Clemons & Schilling for their own reasons.
Those baseball writers are figs for keeping Schilling out. I’m not a Schilling fan at all but if the numbers say he’s in put him in.
I get the argument for Pete Rose and the steroid guys but being an a-hole shouldn’t keep you out.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:21 am to Rize
Schilling is probably the most underrated pitcher of the last 25yrs. One of the best postseason pitchers ever, as well.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:40 am to Schmelly
quote:
Neither should dale murphy
I’m surprised at the amount of upvotes you got here. I figured the Braves fans would roast you. Maybe they aren’t awake yet.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:42 am to Schmelly
quote:
Neither should dale murphy
Tim Hudson would have been a more appropriate retort here.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:42 am to ZOU
quote:
Unfortunately, for most sports, the Hall of Fame has become the Hall of longevity
I do think longevity should be a factor. Not THE factor, but we have seen guys like Tim Lincecum be great for a brief window, showing how tough it is to be great for a long time. Hell, look at what is going on with Skenes right now.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:51 am to Dr RC
quote:
Schilling b/c he's an insufferable a-hole who burned a lot of bridges.
That's because sportswriters, and baseball writers in particular, are self-important arse bags.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 9:20 am to ZOU
yeah times have changed on the pitching front
a lot of future pitchers going into hall are gonna be lacking in the statistics part of it as will position players
otherwise you won't have anyone getting elected
if no one get in, why the hell do you need a HOF
baseball is a different game with analytics playing a big part of it
a lot of future pitchers going into hall are gonna be lacking in the statistics part of it as will position players
otherwise you won't have anyone getting elected
if no one get in, why the hell do you need a HOF
baseball is a different game with analytics playing a big part of it
Posted on 8/7/26 at 9:31 am to theballguy
3,000 Ks, 250 wins, and a Cy Young will get you in, I believe.
Not that I'm disagreeing with OP.
Not that I'm disagreeing with OP.
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