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re: Cards fans, does Marmol make it through May?

Posted on 5/4/23 at 9:18 am to
Posted by Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
34684 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 9:18 am to
quote:

can hardly remember a game where we gave up fewer than 5 runs. Not sure if that’s directly his fault but holy shite we’re bad


Pitching has been horrendous in the entire league this year due to the pitch clock rules. Starting pitchers can’t throw more than 60 or 60 pitches without getting gassed. It’s ridiculous.
Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
79567 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Why did you guys give up your last manager. I cannot remember his last name but I believe his first name was Mike. He came up thru your farm system and was good. I’m a Cub fan but St Louis is good for baseball.


Schildt. Was a TLR "disciple", that's how his hire was sold to everyone. He was blind sided by the fire and no one really knows why it happened.
Posted by mizslu314
Dirty STL
Member since Sep 2013
16714 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:02 am to
Last night was the loudest I've ever heard Boo's at Busch. This is over anything Cubs, Reds, anything.

This is all the front office. Sure Marmol sucks as well. The pitching was going to be a joke going into the season. We have no front end pitching. The bats will heat up, like they did last season, but pitching wont get better.
Posted by mizslu314
Dirty STL
Member since Sep 2013
16714 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:05 am to
quote:

I know this will not go over well here, but there is a reason why Willson Contreras was not retained by the Cubs. I know Cards fans, (The best in baseball), don’t want to hear it, but look at the pitching numbers by both teams last year and now. Ross didn’t like how he called games and he can’t frame for shite. But hey, you guys got us.


Uh, our pitching was bad last year? All we did was return a bunch of old pitchers and they got a little worse, pretty normal thing to happen.
Posted by ShaneTheLegLechler
Member since Dec 2011
63385 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:07 am to
That Ozuna trade is obviously a killer in hindsight with both Alcantara and Gallen flourishing, but I wonder if Cards fans think both would have reached where they are had they stayed in the St Louis system.

Hindsight is 20/20 and for each trade or free agent target you could speculate they should have made, there’s plenty of busts as well. Internal pitching development seems to be where they’ve fallen behind. For an org that seemingly turns a 6th or 8th round pick into a contributing major league position player regularly, they seem to be behind the times on the pitching side for whatever reason. If I were a St Louis fan that’s where I’d want to see change from a front office standpoint
This post was edited on 5/4/23 at 10:08 am
Posted by SeeeeK
some where
Member since Sep 2012
30763 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:15 am to
Schildt was fired because he played the best player available at the position.

Mo'ron. Wants a shill to listen to my hat he says and who he wants playing. Shildt fate was sealed when he sat veterans on nice sized contracts to play younger ones who were playing better.

My source said dejong being sat for younger players was the last straw. Local shill media will never ask or tell the real reasons, they suck teams penis
Posted by ProjectP2294
West St. Louis County
Member since May 2007
77963 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:15 am to
quote:

That Ozuna trade is obviously a killer in hindsight with both Alcantara and Gallen flourishing, but I wonder if Cards fans think both would have reached where they are had they stayed in the St Louis system.


They would not have. Alcantara was being pidgeon-holed into a late inning role and wasn't in line to be given a chance to start again in St Louis. Him going to a spot completely bereft of starting pitching was the best thing for him.

Gallen was being asked to pitch differently than he is now and in a way that didn't maximize his skill set. I don't remember the specifics but I remember reading about how he was an atypical draft pick for the club because his strengths were different than the other guys that have had success with the Cardinals. Getting out of the org helped him as well.

It's still extremely frustrating and instead of being okay with it because they wouldn't have done that here, it makes me ask why they wouldn't have and why is the club okay with it.
Posted by ProjectP2294
West St. Louis County
Member since May 2007
77963 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:17 am to
quote:

My source said dejong being sat for younger players was the last straw. Local shill media will never ask or tell the real reasons,


McKernan is the only person I've heard touch on this, and even he dances around it a little bit.

We need another Joe Strauss.
Posted by ShaneTheLegLechler
Member since Dec 2011
63385 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:22 am to
Yeah it definitely looks to be a blind spot currently and it’s a big one to have. From looking at the profile of their typical pitcher they favor the sinker/slider types which hasn’t been in vogue overall for a while.

Their front office clearly isn’t bad and there are pitching development type guys I’m sure they could pluck from other orgs that do it well (Cleveland, Tampa, San Fran, Houston to name a few). But it does seem to be pretty insular in hiring from the outside
This post was edited on 5/4/23 at 10:24 am
Posted by Tiger Ugly
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
18659 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:25 am to
quote:

Uh, our pitching was bad last year? All we did was return a bunch of old pitchers and they got a little worse, pretty normal thing to happen.


Yes, it's a hard thing to quantify no doubt. Let's just say WC40 didn't help in that regard. And yes the Cards pitching was not great last year....I don't watch enough to say if it's worse at this point this year compared to last year, but....

There's a reason not only the Cubs let him walk for a draft pick and the Stros and all other playoff contenders balked at the trade deadline - No one trusted him with their staffs in playoff situations and that is a reality.

He'll give you .250 and 15-20 homers by year end with streakiness on both ends and by the end of the year you'll have him DH'ing or playing another position more and more often. If that's what you want and expect, and are not too concerned with whatever drag he may contribute to pitching struggles, then you got it.
Posted by JasonMason
Memphis
Member since Jun 2009
4931 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 10:46 am to
quote:

My source said dejong being sat for younger players was the last straw. Local shill media will never ask or tell the real reasons,


It's certainly odd how many chances he's gotten to turn it around.

I've been on the trade Flaherty train for 3 years now. I don't think he'll ever repeat his 2019 season. We will constantly be teased by his potential and by the time we part ways we will get a bag of balls for him. The time to trade him was two years ago. It's going to be a repeat of Carlos Martinez.
Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
79567 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 12:47 pm to
They take a 2-0 lead in the first because the right fielder misplayed a Contreras liner and then immediately give up 4 in the 2nd.

Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
79567 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 1:08 pm to
Flaherty has given up 7 ER in 2 1/3

bases loaded again, 1 out for the Angels


Trout not playing


Final line on Flaherty: 2.1, 9 hits, 10 ER, 1 BB, 3 K
This post was edited on 5/4/23 at 1:18 pm
Posted by LSUJockStrap
Member since May 2019
2083 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 1:22 pm to
I am thinking Marmol will be fired after today's game
Posted by Indiangensing
Member since Nov 2017
2360 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 1:22 pm to
Today is not any better...
Posted by The Seaward
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2006
11530 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 2:30 pm to
Pinch hitting Motter and his career slash line of .192/.264/.310 for Nolan Gorman seems like the actions of someone who wants to get canned.

Unless I missed an injury to Gorman.
Posted by bwallcubfan
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2007
39159 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 2:56 pm to
Baseball gods were grossed out by seeing Contreras in that uniform
Posted by rhar61
Member since Nov 2022
5109 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

bfib



It is fricking entertainment.

When the product sucks you cannot get a refund so you voice your displeasure.

Assuming you like Denzel or Keanu, do you cheer when they make a shitty movie to "support" them?

When the players go back to needing a real job in the offseason to get by so that fans don't have to pay $10 or $12 for a beer then booing is suspect.
Posted by ProjectP2294
West St. Louis County
Member since May 2007
77963 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 2:57 pm to
As a Cardinals fan I would have preferred to go into the season with Knizner and Herrera than to have given Contreras the contract they gave him.

I mean, the on field results couldn't possibly have been any worse but at least then there would have been capital to spend on the free agent market for pitchers.
Posted by Schmelly
Member since Jan 2014
16151 posts
Posted on 5/4/23 at 9:52 pm to
quote:

This teams offense was average, no pujols to cover their arse, or shite division to save it. (pujols carried them last 2 months). They put their whole offensive plan on young players being very good mlb'rs, with zero notion they ever could be.


This guy gets it
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