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re: Braves trade Yunel Escobar to Jays
Posted on 7/14/10 at 9:48 pm to OBUDan
Posted on 7/14/10 at 9:48 pm to OBUDan
quote:
We got him in the deal.
I'm talking in the next two years
I'm willing to bet the kid we got in the deal gets sent off and never sees the bigs with us.
We have Lipka who is a more talented player for SS and Salcedo for 3B for a lot of years to come. and of course, Prado at 2nd.
I just hope he continues to make progress in the minors so he can become a valuable trade chip
1
Posted on 7/14/10 at 9:51 pm to auzach91
So I havent read past page one but Now that every respected person associated with the game is calling this a steal for the Braves...does anyone still think this trade was bad?
I've said it for two years that Yunel was a cancer on this team
I've said it for two years that Yunel was a cancer on this team
Posted on 7/14/10 at 9:56 pm to beaver
From the Atlanta Braves Facebook page: Wren had to trade Escobar
It says that the players wanted him off the team, and Wren really accelerated his efforts to trade Yunel after his laziness almost cost us Glaus.
This probably isn't said a lot in the middle of a thread, but SIAP
It says that the players wanted him off the team, and Wren really accelerated his efforts to trade Yunel after his laziness almost cost us Glaus.
This probably isn't said a lot in the middle of a thread, but SIAP
Posted on 7/14/10 at 10:38 pm to SwampDonks
quote:
I'm talking in the next two years
Well, he was a 5th round pick and he's 20. It's not out of the question he could play by the time he's 22 in my mind. He's done really well in the minors.
Swipes a lot bags, OBP is at least hovering around the average mark. He's never going to be a high average hitter, but if his OBP is in the .340s or higher, that doesn't matter.
All reports I've read are that he's extremely refined already. It's not like he's just a great athlete that's playing baseball. To me, these are the kind of guys that can shoot through the minors and play quicker.
Will he ever be an All Star? Probably not. But I think he'll have a legit shot at being our starter in a couple of years.
Posted on 7/14/10 at 10:43 pm to OBUDan
Yeah absolutely and I'm not saying he's a bad player. He could end up being a very serviceable leadoff guy
just that we have a couple guys with more potential in Lipka and Salcedo
but as with any prospects, who knows what can happen. I hope all of them work out. We need as many bats in the minors as we can get right now
just that we have a couple guys with more potential in Lipka and Salcedo
but as with any prospects, who knows what can happen. I hope all of them work out. We need as many bats in the minors as we can get right now
Posted on 7/14/10 at 10:56 pm to SwampDonks
Yeah for sure. Glad to see you've softened on your original stance... at least a little.
I agree that that Escobar needed to be moved. I also agree that Gonzalez isn't exactly my kind of player (I like high OBP guys that don't have sudden spikes in their numbers) and that he's probably not a major answer.
The more I read the more I think this was less a deal about improving talent/skill so much as a deal about improving morale/energy. Which may mean we have another deal left in us. I did read today that we aren't interested in moving any of the three big arms. So maybe Freeman as a chip? Maybe these prospects will be the chips?
To me, it's apparent they wanted to get rid of Escobar but they knew they had to get a starting caliber SS in return. Gonzalez is certainly a serviceable player. I think he'll slow down but he'll still be a good glove and more importantly, happy-go-lucky in the clubhouse.
I agree that that Escobar needed to be moved. I also agree that Gonzalez isn't exactly my kind of player (I like high OBP guys that don't have sudden spikes in their numbers) and that he's probably not a major answer.
The more I read the more I think this was less a deal about improving talent/skill so much as a deal about improving morale/energy. Which may mean we have another deal left in us. I did read today that we aren't interested in moving any of the three big arms. So maybe Freeman as a chip? Maybe these prospects will be the chips?
To me, it's apparent they wanted to get rid of Escobar but they knew they had to get a starting caliber SS in return. Gonzalez is certainly a serviceable player. I think he'll slow down but he'll still be a good glove and more importantly, happy-go-lucky in the clubhouse.
This post was edited on 7/14/10 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 7/14/10 at 11:05 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I also agree that Gonzalez isn't exactly my kind of player (I like high OBP guys that don't have sudden spikes in their numbers) and that he's probably not a major answer.
Yeah that was always my problem with it. I'm a HUGE believer in OBP and consistent AB's. If he comes here and is able to hit the ground ball to 2nd when he needs to or able to put the ball in play when need be, then I'll be happy with him for the time being. But from his numbers, I don't think that'll happen. We'll see.
quote:
The more I read the more I think this was less a deal about improving talent/skill so much as a deal about improving morale/energy.
Yeah for sure. I don't think there's anyone involved in this trade that would say that Yunel isn't the most talented. I guess it just got too bad to deal with which I understand, just wish that we could've got someone a little more consistent. I'm happy with both prospects we got though.
quote:
Which may me we have another deal left in us. I did read today that we aren't interested in moving any of the three big arms. So maybe Freeman as a chip? Maybe these prospects will be the chips?
Guess we'll find out although I honestly would be fine with staying put. I also wouldn't be against getting a bat either though. I do like getting the prospects and having a couple more trading chips from the minors. Outside of Teheran, Vizcaino, Minor, and Freeman we really don't have much of anything.
We'll see. Let's just all hope it all works out. As much as I hate this trade for us and think A Gon won't be very successful in Atlanta's ballpark, what's done is done. Let's just win this division
Posted on 7/14/10 at 11:07 pm to SwampDonks
quote:
In the end, Escobar gave Wren little reason to continue weighing the pros and cons. Once the Cuban shortstop made his lazy throw to first base and nearly caused Troy Glaus great harm on Friday night at Citi Field, the Braves GM began accelerating the efforts that enabled him to land Gonzalez from the Blue Jays on Wednesday.
quote:
"It's easier to put up with that kind of stuff when the guy is hitting .300," one veteran Braves player said in reference to the fact that he and his teammates have been less forgiving of Escobar's mental mistakes while watching him hit just .239 with ZERO homers and 19 RBIs this year.
quote:
When you look at Escobar, you see a 27-year-old shortstop with a world of potential and a personality that could have proven to be detrimental to the Braves as they attempt to make a strong postseason push this year. Wren saw this potential and also recognized the fact that many members of his team wanted him to get rid of Escobar. Thus when the Blue Jays were willing to offer Gonzalez and two respected 20-year-old prospects (shortstop Tyler Pastornicky and left-handed pitcher Tim Collins), he jumped at the opportunity.
LINK
Posted on 7/14/10 at 11:08 pm to The White Lobster
quote:
It says that the players wanted him off the team, and Wren really accelerated his efforts to trade Yunel after his laziness almost cost us Glaus.
That's kinda what I figured. You can tell the clubhouse is pretty closeknit. Hell, they even shunned him. When was the last time you saw Yunel talking or laughing with anyone when the camera cut to a shot of the dugout? Worst case scenario, we picked up a veteran with a lot of playoff experience and got rid of a guy everyone had gotten fed up with.
Posted on 7/14/10 at 11:11 pm to SwampDonks
quote:
Yeah for sure. I don't think there's anyone involved in this trade that would say that Yunel isn't the most talented. I guess it just got too bad to deal with which I understand, just wish that we could've got someone a little more consistent. I'm happy with both prospects we got though.
Yeah, but I saw (see) some saying this is a move to get a power bat in the lineup. Historically, Gonzalez isn't a power hitter. That's basically what I was alluding to.
If Cubs go in firesell mode, the Braves have to listen IMO. Guy is a legit CF, very good at the plate and in the field... speed.. power. Kind of a poor man's Carl Crawford. We have a decent platoon, but that'd be a major, major upgrade.
Will it happen? Probably not. But who knows...
Posted on 7/14/10 at 11:21 pm to OBUDan
This has to be a dump of a player they dont want because teams typically trade away controlled above average players every day.
Toronto got a steal in Escobar, especially if he hits any closer to his career norms. I mean for crying out loud this guy got an MVP last year.
Plus there is absolutely no reason to believe that Alex Gonzalez can keep up his current trend of home runs. He was basically having some luck in some hitter friendly parks and the Jays sold high.
Alex Gonzalez will be serviceable, but worse than Yunel the rest of the season.
Toronto got a steal in Escobar, especially if he hits any closer to his career norms. I mean for crying out loud this guy got an MVP last year.
Plus there is absolutely no reason to believe that Alex Gonzalez can keep up his current trend of home runs. He was basically having some luck in some hitter friendly parks and the Jays sold high.
Alex Gonzalez will be serviceable, but worse than Yunel the rest of the season.
Posted on 7/15/10 at 6:00 am to UltimaParadox
quote:
Alex Gonzalez will be serviceable, but worse than Yunel the rest of the season.
I don't concede that, but even if he does, the parks would have to be factored in. Just because he might hit .300 with 7 homeruns the rest of the way in Toronto doesn't mean he would have done so in Atlanta.
I don't think the Braves' lineup was good enough to win the World Series. As good/deep as the pitching is, there's really no stud that can go out and just dominate another team a couple of times in a series, especially an American League one. They are gonna have to score runs to win, and even if it's just for this one anomolous season, I think they are in better shape to do that today than they were 2 days ago.
And the 2 prospects are just awesome gravy. They are just more pieces that can be used to maybe even getting another bat. The Braves are not going to have a scary 40-homer type guy this year, so the best thing they can do is just to make the lineup deeper and remove weak links. And this year, Yunel was a very, very weak link. It doesn't matter what he did last year or what he may do next year. The days of winning 14-straight division championships are over. You've got to take advantage of every opportunity to win NOW. And as a Braves fan, I'm glad they appear to trying to.
Posted on 7/15/10 at 6:11 am to The White Lobster
quote:
27-year-old shortstop
This is big to me. The haters of this trade seem to act like he's some 23-year-old 2nd year player who's the Braves future at short for the next 10 years. He not. At 27 and with as long as he's already been in the league, this should be his prime. And he's hitting .240 with no homers and less than 20 RBI.
Also, he's not some young punk who'll likely grow out of his immaturity phase. At 27, you typically are who you are, and apparently Yunel is a lazy, not-giving-a-shite prima donna who nobody likes. And who is currently not hitting his dick. Peace out.
Posted on 7/15/10 at 6:50 am to Hot Carl
I think people might just be ignoring what I said. One of the first things I sAid, he'll, I might have been the first person in the thread to say it, idk, was that we made the move bc of his behavior.
Why I don't like this trade is because we sold low on him. We could have gotten better, plain and simple. If gonz drops 14 more bombs, then I'll eat crow, it's just not happening. Well see thoug h.
And obu, the 30-30 remark was kind of a joke. If you knew my tactics in fantasy baseball it would have made sense
Why I don't like this trade is because we sold low on him. We could have gotten better, plain and simple. If gonz drops 14 more bombs, then I'll eat crow, it's just not happening. Well see thoug h.
And obu, the 30-30 remark was kind of a joke. If you knew my tactics in fantasy baseball it would have made sense
Posted on 7/15/10 at 7:12 am to Ron Mexico
quote:
We could have gotten better, plain and simple.
apparently not
quote:
If gonz drops 14 more bombs, then I'll eat crow, it's just not happening.
Jesus Christ, Ron, you know there's no way he's doing that. But if he just hits 1, that's more than Yunel has hit more than halfway through the season.
Posted on 7/15/10 at 7:41 am to Hot Carl
I'm still really happy with this trade and even moreso after reading that article.
The Braves are making a push, not just to make the playoffs, but to win the world series. You gotta trim the fat. Team chemistry is huge when you make a postseason run, and obviously Yunel was terrible for that.
Like I said, if AG even puts up the SAME EXACT 2nd half as yunel's first half but with a hard working attitude, it's a win. I happen to think he has about 8 HR's in him this second half
The Braves are making a push, not just to make the playoffs, but to win the world series. You gotta trim the fat. Team chemistry is huge when you make a postseason run, and obviously Yunel was terrible for that.
Like I said, if AG even puts up the SAME EXACT 2nd half as yunel's first half but with a hard working attitude, it's a win. I happen to think he has about 8 HR's in him this second half
Posted on 7/15/10 at 7:45 am to Pilot Tiger
also to add, Escobar will make around the same amount as AG next year through arbitration so it's not like we're taking on a bigger contract next year
Posted on 7/15/10 at 8:14 am to Ron Mexico
quote:
And obu, the 30-30 remark was kind of a joke. If you knew my tactics in fantasy baseball it would have made sense
My bad. I thought you were just caught up in the heat of the moment
quote:
We could have gotten better, plain and simple.
Like what? Name a good, everyday SS that we could have gotten for him plus two prospects?
I think the Braves made the best move they could.
Posted on 7/15/10 at 8:18 am to Pilot Tiger
An interesting stat on Yunel, he's hit 3 home runs since July 24th of last year. He did swing the bat well overall last year (and he's never been a big HR guy) but that stat was surprising to me.
Anyway, I expect to be frustrated with Gonzalez at times, how can you not be with a .290 OBP guy, but I still think it was the right thing because I just don't want Yunel as our long term starting shortstop.
Anyway, I expect to be frustrated with Gonzalez at times, how can you not be with a .290 OBP guy, but I still think it was the right thing because I just don't want Yunel as our long term starting shortstop.
Posted on 7/15/10 at 8:38 am to Crede15
Glad to know yall moved past the anger phase and into the bargaining and reasoning phase.
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