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re: Based on the first game, who thinks Dalvin Cook is better then L. Fournette?
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:20 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:20 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:I simply said I would like to look further into them. And then I did, and the stats further supported they were similar in rush defense.
But to be informed that stats aren't everything and could be misleading by pride (one, like myself, prone to making spreadsheets full of stats to prove a point) made me chuckle a bit.
Sorry for gathering more STATS while being a stats guy
1
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:21 pm to lsupride87
quote:
I simply said I would like to look further into them. And then I did, and the stats further supported they were similar in rush defense.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:25 pm to RB10
quote:OK. How does this sound instead.
The Cowboys had a higher YPA than the Saints last year. Clearly everyone will agree the Cowboys have a better passing attack. The Browns had a higher YPC than the Cowboys. Clearly everyone will agree the Browns have a better rushing attack.
I'm not even going to bother mentioning the Packers were behind the Dolphins, Seahawks, Bengals, Bears and Titans in YPA.
Cook averaged 1.67 YPC above the Saints' 2016 average. Fournette averaged 0.15 YPC below the Texans' 2016 average. So there is a 1.8 YPC difference per the 2016 expectation.
We can even give Fournette 0.8 YPC and the difference is still 1. So if you want to say Houston's rush deffense was actually 0.89 YPC better than New Orleans' instead of 0.09 Cook still outperformed him by a yard per carry.
Regardless, it's far too small of a sample to draw any conclusions.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:33 pm to lsupride87
quote:Of course you do.
You think you are so cute with gotcha moments. I have no clue what you are even arguing
Strongback gets it. I know you're not that naive, you know. You're just pretending you don't.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:39 pm to buckeye_vol
Game flow is another reason raw stats can be misleading.
One had a QB throw for 345 yards and an offense that was trying to extend a lead against a dangerous opponent. The other had a QB throw for 125 yards while they did nothing but sit on a 3 score lead because the opponent was virtually no threat to come back.
One had a QB throw for 345 yards and an offense that was trying to extend a lead against a dangerous opponent. The other had a QB throw for 125 yards while they did nothing but sit on a 3 score lead because the opponent was virtually no threat to come back.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:40 pm to theunknownknight
Cook -
22 car 127 yds 5.8 YPC long of 33 yds 0 TD
3 Rec 10 yds 3.3 YPA long of 4 yds 0 TD
137 yards total 0 TD
26 car 100 yds 3.8 YPC long of 17 yds 1 TD
3 Rec 24 yds 8.0 YPA long of 12 yds 0 TD
124 yards total 1 TD
Considering the competition they each went up against think they seem bout the same.
22 car 127 yds 5.8 YPC long of 33 yds 0 TD
3 Rec 10 yds 3.3 YPA long of 4 yds 0 TD
137 yards total 0 TD
26 car 100 yds 3.8 YPC long of 17 yds 1 TD
3 Rec 24 yds 8.0 YPA long of 12 yds 0 TD
124 yards total 1 TD
Considering the competition they each went up against think they seem bout the same.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:43 pm to RB10
quote:Of course, but the thread is:
Game flow is another reason raw stats can be misleading.
quote:I acknowledged that one game is too small to draw any conclusions. And last year's stats aren't ideal either. But based on the one game, both played well, but Cook was a more efficient runner. At the end of the season, it may be the complete composite.
Based on the first game
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:45 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I acknowledged that one game is too small to draw any conclusions. And last year's stats aren't ideal either. But based on the one game, both played well, but Cook was a more efficient runner. At the end of the season, it may be the complete composite.
In no way does basing it only on one game ignore what I posted about each of the games.
ETA: Hell, if you're basing it on one game then the flow is probably a pretty important factor.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:52 pm to mdomingue
No clue how to find this but we saw the tweet that LF faced an 8 man box on 58% of his carries, most in the NFL. I'd be interested to see where Cook fell on that number as well.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 2:56 pm to theunknownknight
Hell yea, I watched both games, and Fournette is way more physical and punishing of a runner.
Cook looked good against that garbage Saints defense at times, but Fournette right now looks better than I have ever seen him.
Cook looked good against that garbage Saints defense at times, but Fournette right now looks better than I have ever seen him.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:03 pm to RB10
quote:OK you said this:
In no way does basing it only on one game ignore what I posted about each of the games.
quote:But Fournette only had 6 of his 26 carriers in the fourth quarter, while Cook had of 8 of his 22 carriers in the fourth quarter.
One had a QB throw for 345 yards and an offense that was trying to extend a lead against a dangerous opponent. The other had a QB throw for 125 yards while they did nothing but sit on a 3 score lead because the opponent was virtually no threat to come back
Bradford and Bortles both had 4 attempts in the fourth quarter, although Bradford was 4/4 while Bortles was 1/4.
Excluding punts, FGAs, and victory kneels, Jacksonville ran 13 4th quarter plays while Minnesota ran 14. So Cook's 8 carriers accounted for 57% of their 4th quarter plays while Fournete's 6 carriers accounted for 47%.
quote:Well I don't know how you can account for this, but a good starting place would be to describe it correctly.
ETA: Hell, if you're basing it on one game then the flow is probably a pretty important factor.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:07 pm to shel311
quote:In this thread, I took a stat, then used that to look up additional split stats to form an opinion.
Of course you do.
Strongback gets it. I know you're not that naive, you know. You're just pretending you don't.
Not sure how that makes me a stat hater sir smug
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:08 pm to theunknownknight
Honeslty...
LF played the Texans who are known to have a pretty good D.
DC played the Saints, who each year seem to be historically bad on D.
Cook may very well end up the better player, to to base it off one game, especially when looking at each player's opponent is just stupid trolling.
LF played the Texans who are known to have a pretty good D.
DC played the Saints, who each year seem to be historically bad on D.
Cook may very well end up the better player, to to base it off one game, especially when looking at each player's opponent is just stupid trolling.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:09 pm to PhillyTiger90
quote:
One vs a bottom 10 defense
Ha, you give the Saints D wayyyyy too much credit.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:11 pm to shel311
quote:Next Gen Rushing Stats
No clue how to find this but we saw the tweet that LF faced an 8 man box on 58% of his carries, most in the NFL. I'd be interested to see where Cook fell on that number as well.
Cook 6th at 40.91% of his carriers. So basically, Fournette had 6 more carriers with 8 men in the box than Cook. So if we took those 6 carriers from Fournette, but leave him at 100 yards, he would still have 0.77 fewer yards per carry.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:16 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Well I don't know how you can account for this, but a good starting place would be to describe it correctly.
It's not hard. You just watch the games
quote:
Cook 6th at 40.91% of his carriers. So basically, Fournette had 6 more carriers with 8 men in the box than Cook. So if we took those 6 carriers from Fournette, but leave him at 100 yards, he would still have 0.77 fewer yards per carry.
Jesus. This is not how any of this works.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:19 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:I don't think that's a good way to do it but...Then you factor in total touches and yards, and LF was more efficient in yards per touch.
Cook 6th at 40.91% of his carriers. So basically, Fournette had 6 more carriers with 8 men in the box than Cook. So if we took those 6 carriers from Fournette, but leave him at 100 yards, he would still have 0.77 fewer yards per carry.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:19 pm to RB10
quote:It doesn't provide YPC v. 8 men so just taking away 6 carriers, but no yardage, would probably benefit Fournette.
Jesus. This is not how any of this works.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 3:21 pm to shel311
quote:Probably, but I don't know how much of an impact 8 men would have on a single carry.
Then you factor in total touches and yards, and LF was more efficient in yards per touch.
Edit: Even with that, Cook still had more yards per touch.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 3:23 pm
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