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re: ATL Thread | offseason hot takes + discussion
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:47 am to Falco
Posted on 1/14/23 at 9:47 am to Falco
“Optics” is a term that means nothing. It’s simply an emotional crutch. The Braves let Freddie walk who was Mr. Brave and over 3 million paying customers still came to Truist this year. And the same will happen with Dansby gone.
Optics don’t win games or build rosters. Fried is a great pitcher who had 30 starts with 18 of those at home. Fans aren’t stupid. If Fried goes to free agency they already know the Braves won’t sign him. Therefore, it’s better to trade him and get assets. The fans aren’t going to cry because there are a lot of pitchers out there. Fried won 14 games with 170 K’s in 30 starts. Strider (who no one knew existed) had 11 wins with 202 K’s in 20 starts. Smart teams don’t pay huge contracts for pitchers because they are injury prone and replaceable. I hope Fried stays but if he wants to max it out (as he should and I would do) then he will be traded regardless of “optics”.
Optics don’t win games or build rosters. Fried is a great pitcher who had 30 starts with 18 of those at home. Fans aren’t stupid. If Fried goes to free agency they already know the Braves won’t sign him. Therefore, it’s better to trade him and get assets. The fans aren’t going to cry because there are a lot of pitchers out there. Fried won 14 games with 170 K’s in 30 starts. Strider (who no one knew existed) had 11 wins with 202 K’s in 20 starts. Smart teams don’t pay huge contracts for pitchers because they are injury prone and replaceable. I hope Fried stays but if he wants to max it out (as he should and I would do) then he will be traded regardless of “optics”.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 11:58 am to RunningJacket
Fried is not going to be traded unless the Braves fall flat. He simply won’t. Has nothing to do with optics or any of that bullshite. If the Braves are competing he will stay until he hits free agency. The Braves are in the business of trying to win another World Series, not punting it down the road to future seasons
Posted on 1/14/23 at 2:30 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:
trying to win another World Series not punting it down the road to future seasons
They are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Time will tell if that works. They are definitely not selling out for one way or the other.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:03 pm to Broski
The Braves and Astros are the only teams who have finally figured out you can’t buy a World Series title, but instead should be buying playoff opportunities. Making the playoffs and then getting hot is the only way to win a title.
The only difference between the Braves in 2020 and 2021 were they got hot. The only difference for the Astros is they were hotter than a cold Phillies team. The Braves didn’t win with Freddie, then won with Freddie, then the Dodgers didn’t win with Freddie.
Regarding Fried, yes they will ride him out until it’s obvious he isn’t signing (it’s already obvious to AA) and they get an offer that will give them more playoff opportunities. It’s that simple. If they don’t get a decent offer then they will ride him 2 more seasons and then let him walk. And Fried is not some sure thing pitcher in the playoffs. He’s had as many bad performances as good ones. That’s isn’t worth what his agent will be seeking.
The only difference between the Braves in 2020 and 2021 were they got hot. The only difference for the Astros is they were hotter than a cold Phillies team. The Braves didn’t win with Freddie, then won with Freddie, then the Dodgers didn’t win with Freddie.
Regarding Fried, yes they will ride him out until it’s obvious he isn’t signing (it’s already obvious to AA) and they get an offer that will give them more playoff opportunities. It’s that simple. If they don’t get a decent offer then they will ride him 2 more seasons and then let him walk. And Fried is not some sure thing pitcher in the playoffs. He’s had as many bad performances as good ones. That’s isn’t worth what his agent will be seeking.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:06 pm to RunningJacket
quote:
yes they will ride him out until it’s obvious he isn’t signing (it’s already obvious to AA) and they get an offer that will give them more playoff opportunities.
They aren't trading Fried.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:27 pm to Broski
AA to DOB on Fried...
quote:
“In 2025 what’s the rotation going to be?” That’s very much in my thought process. Max is a stud. Second in Cy Young, great in the clubhouse, and he’s the type — I’ve told him this, too — he’s going to age well.
quote:
David O'Brien
@DOBrienATL
If #Braves are to sign Fried to big extension -- he's 2 yrs from FA -- it makes sense that it happen later this year and begin in 2024. Cuz if did it now, with say $25M AAV in deal, it would be approx $12M above his projected 2023 sal, and additional 20% lux tax on the extra $12M
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:29 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
Better re-sign him.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:34 pm to Broski
Agreed.
What DOB said does make sense.
What DOB said does make sense.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:36 pm to Broski
No serious organization would let Max Fried walk.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:42 pm to sorantable
I'll believe it when I see it. No reason to believe we'll do it right now because if we do re-sign him, it'll be the first $300m contract the Braves ever give out. I'm not sure AA is willing to do that.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:55 pm to Broski
They aren’t going to sign him. That ship has sailed. AA has to play the optics game a little which is why he’s being coy because the media will paint a picture. But if he wasn’t going to pony up for Freddie he sure isn’t going to do it for a pitcher, especially for one who has a spotty post season resume.
And the question about what a 2025 rotation looks like is just a lazy question from clueless media member. What’s AA suppose to say to such a meaningless question?
And the question about what a 2025 rotation looks like is just a lazy question from clueless media member. What’s AA suppose to say to such a meaningless question?
Posted on 1/14/23 at 3:59 pm to Broski
IMO we are fooling ourselves if we think we are going to resign Fried.
We let Freddie walk for half of what Fried will get. And I don’t see AA taking on the risk of the length of that contract for a pitcher.
We let Freddie walk for half of what Fried will get. And I don’t see AA taking on the risk of the length of that contract for a pitcher.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 4:05 pm to POCKET
Rodon just got 6/$162M. Fried is better than him. Someone like the Angels will give him close to $200M.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 4:22 pm to VADawg
I think it will be closer to the Cole contract than the Rodon contract
Posted on 1/14/23 at 4:45 pm to RunningJacket
quote:
They aren’t going to sign him.
Probably not, but they definitely aren't going to trade him.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 4:47 pm to POCKET
quote:
We let Freddie walk for half of what Fried will get.
And we got burned by that because what we could've paid him became a bargain by next offseason.
quote:
. And I don’t see AA taking on the risk of the length of that contract for a pitcher.
We're going to have to take a risk at some point because we no longer have the assets to pull of a trade for a player like we did with Olson right after we let Freddie walk.
At some point, you have to spend to contend.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 4:58 pm to Broski
They might next year. Depends on how the season in 2024 is going at the trade deadline I would think
Posted on 1/14/23 at 5:11 pm to K9
quote:
They might next year. Depends on how the season in 2024 is going at the trade deadline I would think
If we're not in playoff contention by the 2024 deadline, then AA will have bigger problems on his hands than trying to trade Fried.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 5:36 pm to Broski
How did the Braves get burned regarding Freddie? We got a younger player for cheaper who is in the same tier. The Dodgers can pay old man Freddie down the road. I’m glad the Braves will still have a productive Olson when Freddie drops off.
And Fried is just simply not worth what he’ll want. As for the Braves not being able to pull off trades that’s simply not true. The farm will be restocked over the next 5 years while the Braves are going to the playoffs every year. Sure, they aren’t trading for Ohtani types but so what. They never have. We won a WS due to a bunch of no name relievers and a couple of hitters named Rosario and Soler who didn’t cost much to get. Some of y’all make it sound like all you gotta do is trade for a few studs and the WS comes to you. That’s not how baseball works.
And Fried is just simply not worth what he’ll want. As for the Braves not being able to pull off trades that’s simply not true. The farm will be restocked over the next 5 years while the Braves are going to the playoffs every year. Sure, they aren’t trading for Ohtani types but so what. They never have. We won a WS due to a bunch of no name relievers and a couple of hitters named Rosario and Soler who didn’t cost much to get. Some of y’all make it sound like all you gotta do is trade for a few studs and the WS comes to you. That’s not how baseball works.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 5:43 pm to RunningJacket
quote:
How did the Braves get burned regarding Freddie? We got a younger player for cheaper who is in the same tier.
Pay is roughly the same and we got younger, but also got a less productive player.
And not only that, we gave up Langeliers to get Olson, which in turn allowed the A's to part ways with Murphy, so we gave up the last bit of quality on our farm for that.
Like I said earlier in this thread, there's an alternative universe out there, where the Braves and Freddie act like adults and actually talk to each other, get a deal done, so instead of trading Langeliers, we keep him, he becomes our catcher of the future, which allows us to trade Muller, Contreras and Pache for a big name SS or LF this offseason instead of trading for a C.
It's all connected.
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