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re: 12 years ago today, Pat Tillman gave his life for this country
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:23 pm to shel311
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:23 pm to shel311
quote:
quote:
You'd think from those tweets he was killed by the taliban and not by some chicken shite guys in his own unit while carrying out a pointless operation to remove a broken down vehicle.
What does how he died have to do with or change anything in those tweets?
Maybe I'm reading too much into character-limited tweets, but i felt like the tenor of them was along the lines of the propaganda story. Ie he heroically sacrificed his life while holding off a bunch of evil terrorists. IDK, the whole episode upsets me.
Several years ago around memorial Day, I was on the interstate when I heard some sort of radio ad celebrating Pat Tillman and mentioning that he lost his life during an enemy ambush. I was furious and no shite, called the Tillman Foundation to report it. His death and aftermath should be a cause for national outrage. shite like that shows the cover up is still ongoing.
0
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:24 pm to slackster
quote:
I guess it is difficult for me to comprehend how someone with no faith in a god still finds himself so overwhelmed with patriotism to give up his career to fight for his country. You would think that much conviction in something as intangible as patriotism would have manifested itself in some sort of religion as
Maybe it wasn't about patriotism. Maybe it was about blowing shite up and doing hardcore stuff. Ive thought long and hard many times about joining the Marines, but can never bring myself to do it because I would be doing it for the wrong reasons. The least of which would be for this country. And Im about as unreligious and anti-religion as one can get.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:30 pm to slackster
What points to a possible murder?
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:34 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Maybe it wasn't about patriotism. Maybe it was about blowing shite up and doing hardcore stuff.
Nah, if that was the case he wouldn't have been outspoken about his opposition to going into Iraq. I hate to use the mundane phrase "higher calling" but that describes him to a T. I highly recommend you read Where Men Win Glory to anyone who hasn't. He was really a fascinating guy.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:35 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
What points to a possible murder?
Apparently the tightness of the 3 wound entries suggest it came from a weapon within ten meters. They've also found little to no evidence of enemy fire in the immediate area and his body armor and journal were burned.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:36 pm to bwallcubfan
PT was a real man. American hero for sure...
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:37 pm to slackster
quote:
quote:
What points to a possible murder?
Apparently the tightness of the 3 wound entries suggest it came from a weapon within ten meters. They've also found little to no evidence of enemy fire in the immediate area and his body armor and journal were burned.
I'm as passionate about the subject as anyone and I definitely don't think it was murder. It was reckless friendly fire, have you read the book? I hate to keep harping on it but it explains the circumstances in a lot of detail.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:46 pm to REG861
I didn't say it was murder, just that it was a possibility. I was just explaining why some people bring that up.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:48 pm to slackster
quote:I don't see the link between religiousness and patriotism at all, IMO.
I guess it is difficult for me to comprehend how someone with no faith in a god still finds himself so overwhelmed with patriotism to give up his career to fight for his country. You would think that much conviction in something as intangible as patriotism would have manifested itself in some sort of religion as well.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:48 pm to bwallcubfan
Dude had GOAT jawline
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:58 pm to bwallcubfan
He was a badass. Dude was a atheist also. Sucks how politicians and famous people who didn't know him showed up at his funeral to gain PR points.
He did more for his country than his country did for him.
He did more for his country than his country did for him.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 2:59 pm to shel311
I'm drawing a parallel from the level of conviction that is required to give up what he had to go fight for his country and the faith that some of the religious have. They both require an enormous about of belief in something intangible. One doesn't necessarily beget the other, but they're in the same vein. I'm honestly surprised this is such an unpopular position. The similarities between the zealots and the extremely patriotic seem to be self evident to me. I'm sure a psychologist can expound on it.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:00 pm to PeteRose
quote:
He did more for his country than his country did for him.
Well said.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:01 pm to bwallcubfan
quote:
12 years ago today, Pat Tillman was assassinate by his country.
Rip
This post was edited on 4/22/16 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:19 pm to bwallcubfan
He did a great thing, and it always makes me absolutely sick to my stomach that he was killed by friendly fire.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:27 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
What points to a possible murder?
Pretty much nothing except the the rabbit holes that certain peoples' minds can go down.
Tillman wasn't the only one killed and wounded that day. He was also exceptionally well-liked in his platoon and one of the more popular guys in their battalion. If you know any of the Black Sheep who were there that day and throw out that accusation, they'll pull a Buzz Aldrin on you.
Combat can be incredibly confusing, and friendly fire happens. It's unfortunate, but fatal accidents sometimes happen when you put an M249 in the hands of a 20 year old - even a highly-trained warrior - halfway across the world. It very nearly happened in my own platoon, and another platoon in my unit killed a reporter on accident in a friendly fire incident. It happens.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:30 pm to AbuTheMonkey
If I remember correctly from the book that came out after his death, his last words were "I'm PAT FU(KING TILLMAN!" to try and get the short hothead on the machine gun to quit firing at him. Then his head was shot off. Only a large caliber bullet to the dome could stop that beast. RIP.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:34 pm to Honest Tune
quote:
If I remember correctly from the book that came out after his death, his last words were "I'm PAT FU(KING TILLMAN!" to try and get the short hothead on the machine gun to quit firing at him. Then his head was shot off. Only a large caliber bullet to the dome could stop that beast. RIP.
IIRC, it was actually an M249 SAW (so 5.56mm - relatively small). That's why the shot group was so tight - SAW's have an incredibly high rate of fire (the highest of any in the American infantry arsenal), and the gunners are taught 5 - 7 round bursts. If the gunner is zeroed in and has a good bead on his target, those rounds will be flying on pretty much the exact same path.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:41 pm to AbuTheMonkey
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Posted on 4/22/16 at 3:51 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Pretty much nothing except the the rabbit holes that certain peoples' minds can go down.
Yeah I'm not trying to cause a stir with the "possibly murder" comment, I'm just covering my bases.
These are the concerns for those who suspect foul play discussed on Wikipedia:
quote:
In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[30]
There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire.
The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.
Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.
Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[32]
There were special forces snipers in the group immediately behind Tillman's platoon.[32]
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