re: Why I have changed my mind on Dave Ramsey

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You're a very lucky man.

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I'm lucky in that she won't let a big out of control balance run up. Believe me, I know.

Of course all that means is that her Saturday shopping sprees are paid off on Monday. Now if we could just get the shopping under control...

But JCP and Kohls have to hate us because she takes advantage of all of their card discounts and we never pay interest. Of course... she also is buying a lot of stuff she doesn't need, so maybe they have the last laugh.

I went full on DR after going through the recession and a divorce. BAD idea. I've started up a homebuilding company and have cash but no credit. Not working for me now.

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I took his FPU course through my church and I think his advice is great on how to get out of debt. What I have come to strongly disagree with is the motto he preached constantly of "live like noone else so that you can oneday live like noone else". Basically live your life like a pauper so that you can have some fantasy retired life...well life isn't guaranteed to us and even if we live many years after retirement, our health certainly isn't guaranteed to allow us to enjoy all the fun things that we didn't do when we were younger because we were too busy eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and driving used mopeds to work. And time spent/memories made on vacations while the kids are young can't be replaced. I know I am exaggerating to make a point, but his "wait until retirement cuz its going to be awesome" schtick doesn't sit well with me.

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I haven't taken his FPU course, but I've been listening to his podcasts for about a year. I admit that what's kept me listening are the people who have dug themselves deeeep holes because of ignorance... or utter stupidity. It's often like catching an episode of Jerry Springer, but without the baby mama drama... and punches thrown.

Anyway, don't take offense, but I believe you've misinterpreted and misstated his message, in addition to your apparent belief that retirement is an (advanced) age, when it's actually a financial stage of life. Depending on what your life goals are, and how you manage your finances along the way, you can retire at 35, 45, 55 or any other age. And trust me, life doesn't end on your 40th birthday.

The only people who he's suggested live like paupers (beans & rice, rice & beans) are the ones who've created HUGE messes for themselves. Never have I heard him suggest that someone not take a vacation or spend time with their kids. With him, apart from motorized vehicles, it usually comes down to one thing: is the activity or item within your budget and are you going to pay cash for it? But if someone goes on a Disney cruise with their 4 and 6 year olds, puts the trip on an 18% credit card and has to pay it off over the next 10 years, yeah, that's 100% stoopid - and he'll call them out on that foolishness. People can spend meaningful, quality time with their kids and still stay within a budget. But Americans are the world's worst when it comes to rationalizing the need for immediate gratification. Not living like the typical American just means that you're not living paycheck to paycheck, and you have a detailed, written budget. Like someone else said earlier, it's all about establishing a balance in life. And part of that is knowing the difference between a want and a need.

I can nitpick things he's said. I don't agree with Dave's mutual fund investment strategy, because it doesn't take age into account in the allocation strategy. At age 25 or 35, 50% of a portfolio being in aggressive growth and growth is fine. But IMO maintaining 50% of a portfolio in aggressive growth and growth is incredibly risky if you're say 65 (unless, like him, you own a business or other asset that provides the bulk of your income if/when you decide to retire). But like I said, that's just a nitpick. Overall, I agree with his basic debt philosophy, although I have and do sometimes employ leverage in my real estate transactions. So... I guess that's a "do as I say, not as I do"?

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Dave Ramsey is great for people who do not know anything about, or have never studied Finance.

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Conservatively 85-90% of the population.

You pay cash for your house!!!! Durrrr
You can save up $150,000 cash. Come on man just follow the baby steps!

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If you can’t show that you can pay a debt, it’s tough to get approved for a mortgage.

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I’m by no means a Dave disciple, but if you have 10-20% down, no debt and you're wanting a 15 to 30 year fixed rate that’s 25% or less than your take home pay...you’ll find a lender at prime rates.

I listened to Dave once and liked that he advised a caller not to sell his guns during a financial crisis.

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The only thing a credit score is good for is better rates on new debt

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There is nothing wrong with that if the rate is low enough.

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All the brilliant min/maxxers can laugh all they want - the program isn't for them ... until it is.

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So 100% of Min/Max will eventually need Dave Ramsey?

This is another layer of the Ramsey cult mentality. Because I was/am an irresponsible financial midget, you will be too if you don’t worship at the altar of Dave. This is where the conversation goes south because the financial idiots refuse to think some individuals are competent enough to use the monetary leverage system responsibly.

Some people are naturally good chefs, have natural athletic ability, are mechanically and technologically inclined to be successful in those arenas. Some people need help in said arenas because they want to be good at it.

Finance is no different.