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Message
re: Resignation is Official - New Agreement is Executed, but wait... - Update in OP and Page 5
Posted on 2/1/18 at 9:37 am to Wind
Posted on 2/1/18 at 9:37 am to Wind
quote:
But if they come back with a larger salary and a small amount of equity?
Then you have precedent that management will lie to your face, document the lie in internal paperwork to forever use against you, and forcefully underpay employees whom they consider valuable when push comes to shove.
Do you really want to work at a place like that?
1
Posted on 2/1/18 at 9:55 am to Volvagia
quote:
Then you have precedent that management will lie to your face, document the lie in internal paperwork to forever use against you, and forcefully underpay employees whom they consider valuable when push comes to shove.
So I take it you don't really manage anyone?
Outside of a having a good reason, a manager is not likely to just offer a 20% raise. Most of the time you are talking 3-10% yearly. Now if you get a promotion, take on new tasks, etc. that is different.
Most people have certain timelines with a company in which a promotion or new job duty is expected which brings a raise. You can often go outside of your company to get a faster promotion/ more job duties quicker which means higher pay quicker. That doesn't make your original company guilty of underpaying you.
ETA: who knows if OP's supervisor gave him negative reviews on purpose. It could also be that he received more positive reviews then he deserved in the past in order to assist him in getting a raise. Because that happens plenty also.
This post was edited on 2/1/18 at 9:57 am
Posted on 2/1/18 at 9:58 am to Wind
Update
They provided me their counteroffer today.
It was about 7% higher than what the F500 is offering in salary, still no benefits.
I explained that at that number, I would have to decline.
My boss became very emotional/upset asking what it would take to keep me.
I explained it wasn't about money but about growth opportunity and feeling like I didn't want to work in a place where I had to put in my resignation to advance. I can't understand why I wasn't this valuable before, but now that I'm leaving, I am.
He explained the company didn't make any money and he just couldn't give me anything else at that time. This is still the case and he'd be taking out a "loan" in the form of more money from our CEO/Owner.
He begged me for a counter to his counter, I explained I really didn't want to give one because I don't think there was anything realistic.
He eventually pulled "80k and 5% equity" out of me.
Now he's scheming for a way to make that work or something competitive, offering to pay my salary out of his if the company can't afford it and guaranteeing me a percentage of sales from our new product launch... I don't think he could get the board to ever agree to these things, I don't know why he's suggesting them.
This whole process is now very uncomfortable for me.
They provided me their counteroffer today.
It was about 7% higher than what the F500 is offering in salary, still no benefits.
I explained that at that number, I would have to decline.
My boss became very emotional/upset asking what it would take to keep me.
I explained it wasn't about money but about growth opportunity and feeling like I didn't want to work in a place where I had to put in my resignation to advance. I can't understand why I wasn't this valuable before, but now that I'm leaving, I am.
He explained the company didn't make any money and he just couldn't give me anything else at that time. This is still the case and he'd be taking out a "loan" in the form of more money from our CEO/Owner.
He begged me for a counter to his counter, I explained I really didn't want to give one because I don't think there was anything realistic.
He eventually pulled "80k and 5% equity" out of me.
Now he's scheming for a way to make that work or something competitive, offering to pay my salary out of his if the company can't afford it and guaranteeing me a percentage of sales from our new product launch... I don't think he could get the board to ever agree to these things, I don't know why he's suggesting them.
This whole process is now very uncomfortable for me.
This post was edited on 2/1/18 at 10:03 am
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:21 am to Wind
quote:
He eventually pulled "80k and 5% equity" out of me.
quote:
He explained the company didn't make any money
Welp!
This post was edited on 2/1/18 at 10:23 am
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:21 am to Wind
quote:
He begged me for a counter to his counter, I explained I really didn't want to give one because I don't think there was anything realistic.
He eventually pulled "80k and 5% equity" out of me.
Now he's scheming for a way to make that work or something competitive, offering to pay my salary out of his if the company can't afford it and guaranteeing me a percentage of sales from our new product launch... I don't think he could get the board to ever agree to these things, I don't know why he's suggesting them.
This whole process is now very uncomfortable for me
This is becoming cringe worthy.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:31 am to ODP
quote:
This is becoming cringe worthy.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
A few weeks ago they wouldn't give me a dollar raise.
Now he is saying things like "You are valuable. You're the difference between us succeeding or not. I have to keep you."
The whole thing does not pass the sniff test for me.
I don't know what they'll come back with now, but I can't imagine accepting anything. I don't know how they'd frick me here, but I know they'd try...
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:42 am to Wind
How did you go from an unsatisfactory performance review a few weeks ago with the boss telling you "on some days I think you only work an hour a day" to being indispensable to the company?
It seems to me the boss was just trying to justify a way to not give you a raise prior to your new job offer.
It seems to me the boss was just trying to justify a way to not give you a raise prior to your new job offer.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:46 am to Wind
quote:
This whole process is now very uncomfortable for me.
Tell them they made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:47 am to baldona
quote:
So I take it you don't really manage anyone?
Outside of a having a good reason, a manager is not likely to just offer a 20% raise. Most of the time you are talking 3-10% yearly. Now if you get a promotion, take on new tasks, etc. that is different.
Wut?
Did you even read what I said? I didn’t make a sweeping generalization of the market, nor did I say the act of matching an offer means the company is guilty of deliberately under paying you.
What I said was:
If you got a bad review right before an anticipated raise, with no lead up, no coaching, that you weren’t putting forth sufficient effort, but when you threaten to leave you suddenly get a 20% payraise and an equity position.
Well that is fishy.
I’m pointing out that if you get a strong negative review for a raise, but then in a short period of time they are willing to give a massive pay bump to keep you, then yes, they are screwing you over.
Not because they didn’t instantly give you what you were “worth,” but because they were fabricating arguments to justify not giving even a modest bump that suddenly don’t matter if they are looking at losing the worker.
I was conjointing what it would likely mean if the exceedingly “hopeful” outcome he expressed occurred after the set up laid out in the OP.
Tell me, Mr Manager.
If you had an employee that you felt “didn’t put in 110% a day, and sometimes only did an hour’s worth of work” who wished to leave, would you wish them well or immediately offer a 20%+ payraise for them stay?
Only outlier I can see where this makes sense is an unique and difficult to replace skill set in play.
This post was edited on 2/1/18 at 10:51 am
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:48 am to LSURussian
quote:
It seems to me the boss was just trying to justify a way to not give you a raise prior to your new job offer.
This I've felt was obvious from the day he gave me the bad PR.
Now it's just undeniable.
He will now tell you I am twisting his words, that the performance review wasn't that bad and it was never meant to be a performance review, just a meeting to talk about if we had hit project goals. (which would have triggered my raise)
I am very suddenly the difference between success and failure and he doesn't want to take a huge step back in the progress of the company by losing me.
How this change of heart occurred so rapidly and only after being given my resignation...the world may never know.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 10:49 am to LSURussian
quote:
How did you go from an unsatisfactory performance review a few weeks ago with the boss telling you "on some days I think you only work an hour a day" to being indispensable to the company?
It seems to me the boss was just trying to justify a way to not give you a raise prior to your new job offer.
Exactly.
According to some here, you obviously aren’t a manager.
Curious where that guy works, so I can make sure I never end up there.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 11:01 am to Wind
Also keep in mind at the new job that is your STARTING pay. At your current job they would expect so much more from you because they gave you such a big raise.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 11:03 am to Wind
quote:
boss absolutely blindsides me, tells me he thinks my performance is lacking, I'm not giving 110% and that "on some days I think you only work an hour a day".
Going to be preaching to the choir here but I just can't get over this.
You now know for a fact that you're apparently very valuable to the company and that he/they were lying when giving you the PR. This is undeniable.
Sounds your boss just learned a valuable lesson in employee management. Congrats on the new ff500 company job.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 11:13 am to Wind
quote:
offering to pay my salary out of his if the company can't afford it and guaranteeing me a percentage of sales from our new product launch
Jesus, that's insane.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 11:48 am to Volvagia
quote:
Tell me, Mr Manager.
If you had an employee that you felt “didn’t put in 110% a day, and sometimes only did an hour’s worth of work” who wished to leave, would you wish them well or immediately offer a 20%+ payraise for them stay?
Only outlier I can see where this makes sense is an unique and difficult to replace skill set in play.
Because its a small business. I'm guessing the OP's manager just had a meeting with the owner about 2017 performance and income, and was likely in a shite mood as the company didn't do well.
He then puts that back onto the employees. One bad performance review does not make a career with a company.
I agree the OP's manager should clearly not have given him the bad review in hindsight, but everyone has bad days. OP said he had a good relationship.
If the OP's manager had no idea he'd be looking elsewhere if he wasn't offered a raise, that doesn't mean he was intentionally trying to underpay him. Especially as said in a bad year.
Losing 1/5 employees can put a tremendous burden on a company, thus the offer for a pay increase to not have to deal with that.
If I was OP, I'd leave for the F500 outside of the commute. I'm simply saying that if you take the emotions out of the whole thing, there can be a reasonable answer.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 12:04 pm to GRTiger
quote:
Jesus, that's insane.
It is insane.
I think he never expected me to leave.
Then he never expected me to decline his counter.
When I did, he started grasping at straws.
As another poster said, the whole thing has become cringe worthy.
I feel like I made it very clear I wanted to leave and it only seems to make him fight harder to keep me.
He is now playing with hypotheticals because he doesn't want to deal with the increase in his work load should they lose me.
He is offering things that the CEO and the board would never approve.
This post was edited on 2/1/18 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 2/1/18 at 12:20 pm to Wind
quote:
It is insane.
I think he never expected me to leave.
Then he never expected me to decline his counter.
When I did, he started grasping at straws.
As another poster said, the whole thing has become cringe worthy.
Eh not really that insane. I've heard many a stories like this from my non professional college friends working for small businesses in sales, marketing, etc.
Many of the execs and owners are so in satiated with their business they don't open their eyes to the world around them. Many of them are not that great at business they are just good at doing whatever their business does.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 12:46 pm to Wind
quote:
offering to pay my salary out of his if the company can't afford it
Ah, the old "Gregg Williams" tactic.
That must have been one tough conversation. To think, all he had to do to keep you initially was not be an a-hole.
This post was edited on 2/1/18 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 2/1/18 at 12:50 pm to LSUfan20005
quote:
Ah, the old "Greg Williams" tactic.
What is this?
quote:
That must have been one tough conversation. To think, all he had to do to keep you initially was not be an a-hole.
It was a very awkward conversation. He called me last night after hours and had a similar conversation preparing the counter for today.
I told him much of the same things then as I did today. I'm not sure how he thought that was a number I'd accept.
Posted on 2/1/18 at 1:05 pm to Wind
This is quickly becoming a shite show.
Neither party is being honest or reasonable anymore and it’s going to lead to a hard separation rather than an amicable one.
If your boss works hard and gets you nearly what you ask for, including sacrificing some of his own pay, you’re in a lose-lose situation.
You need to decide if you are actually willing to stay or not. At this point, I’m not sure how you could. The new job has a lot of benefits, with the major pitfall being a longer commute (30min vs 60 min). Not sure the growth potential, or current situation, but moving could help the commute.
Neither party is being honest or reasonable anymore and it’s going to lead to a hard separation rather than an amicable one.
If your boss works hard and gets you nearly what you ask for, including sacrificing some of his own pay, you’re in a lose-lose situation.
You need to decide if you are actually willing to stay or not. At this point, I’m not sure how you could. The new job has a lot of benefits, with the major pitfall being a longer commute (30min vs 60 min). Not sure the growth potential, or current situation, but moving could help the commute.
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