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re: Protection against collapse

Posted on 8/29/22 at 9:34 am to
Posted by biscuitsngravy
Tejas, north America
Member since Jan 2011
3780 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 9:34 am to
- cash in a national too big to fail bank (JP Morgan etc)
- Gold (though it pays nothing it's insurance against currency collapse)
- short duration treasuires.
- physical real estate (not a reit) if you're big baller

due to real concerns about our current fiscal position, level of debt and money printing, bulked up on emergency cash holdings, bonds with a two year shortened duration and moved stock holdings to high quality blue chips that have historically paid a high dividend.

Interesting enough, a couple of high dividend funds are actually UP ytd. well managed companies, with strong balance sheets, is as good a protection as above list in my mind.

Posted by lsu13lsu
Member since Jan 2008
11767 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 9:55 am to
quote:

What kind of collapse, specifically, are you looking to guard against?

Everyone who uses that word is going to have something different in mind.


Exactly. When I hear collapse I think of society. Which means canned goods and shotgun shells. Cash, stocks, hedges? Useless.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11869 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 10:17 am to
quote:

That’s a ballsy as frick prediction. Do you really think long dated yields are going down in any substantial way?



Dude it's been 2 years of high "inflation" you think bond yields are behind the curve STILL?
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57979 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

I’ve got my doom & gloom hat on this evening and am wondering what I can do to protect some wealth/assets from a possible upcoming depression. Besides the old “gold, ammo, booze& food” suggestions, are there any strategies that worked in the 20’s or elsewhere? What is realistic?


There is a drop coming but it's not going to be a crash.

I've moved heavily into energy (been doing that since Biden). While the market is down .087% today, I'm up 2.25% and it's all on the back of my energy stocks. I'll probably stay heavy in energy through the year, at least as long as NG and coal are high.

Posted by gpburdell
ATL
Member since Jun 2015
1579 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

I’ve got my doom & gloom hat on this evening and am wondering what I can do to protect some wealth/assets from a possible upcoming depression


If you truly believe that, I'd be locking in some Treasuries for whatever time period you are concerned with. Treasuries 6 months and longer are currently yielding over 3%.
Posted by KamaCausey_LSU
Member since Apr 2013
17184 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

To the OP, I bought some 3800 puts on the S&P back on August 1st with a January expiration date. I still think those will be ITM at some moment in the next five months. That is one way to hedge to the downside.

I think this would be the most profitable move if you think we're headed for a cliff.

eta: Or would it be better to sell covered calls against your assets?
This post was edited on 8/29/22 at 3:37 pm
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4292 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

Or would it be better to sell covered calls against your assets?


If one has a truly bearish conviction, buying puts (or put credit spreads) is more of a pure play. Covered calls (or even short call spreads) just give premiums to lessen the losses in the event of a major correction. Of course, a person can do both. The short call premiums can help pay for the long puts. Not a strategy that I use, but one can do that if they’re solidly bullish and want to skew to that side.
Posted by PotatoChip
Member since May 2014
4780 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 4:08 pm to
I went to all cash went dow was 35k. Haven’t regretted it and look to start peeling back in closer to 30k. I just seen more downside potential than upside. It’s definitely a risk either way and financial advisors will tell you just invest and try not to time the market.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4292 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

I sleep easily, and know that I will never sell my equities in a panic.


Posted by Pendulum
Member since Jan 2009
7929 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 9:02 pm to
To sum it up, basically I think fed is fighting a battle they cant win until comps get better because they use CPI and they cant fix labor supply. If commodities stay on a leg up right now, they are going to have to be aggressive; maybe even hit their QT numbers. I think they will be successful and destroy demand components of CPI; and then comps will greatly improve 1Q and they will stop and wait for CPI to come back to fed funds target and they will turn dovish, meanwhile equities are sideways which helps hold longterm yield down and growth is slowed. If you get some type of resolution to Ukraine in the meantime, then CPI will fall faster and they wont have to go as high. The bet is that long term yields will just sit around here and not move meaningfully higher. Once FED shows a crack; long end of yield curve will continue longterm migration downwards.

If Ukraine escalates, or something else geopolitical happens, or some black swan happens; I would think theres a flight to safety which also would lower long term yields. Also something could break while theyre tightening, albeit that seems unlikely now. So it's also a type of hedge against a crazy event.

Long term treasuries just seem like a good trade to me, but we might not be at the bottom just yet, so you have to go out pretty far. Might be a tad early to put it on. I have some 120 calls in late 23 and jan 24. TLT chart looks like a bottom and it's just a very small part of my overall portfolio.
This post was edited on 8/29/22 at 10:36 pm
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91362 posts
Posted on 8/29/22 at 11:35 pm to
quote:

Dude it's been 2 years of high "inflation" you think bond yields are behind the curve STILL?


I think the duration risk is unnecessary if you’re using it to hedge. Why not stay on the short end for that?
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11869 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 9:17 am to
100% and that's exactly what the institutions that use those securities are doing. I just don't think the market could ever get the long end up above this 3-3.5% range there's too much risk and not enough organic growth for that money to be lent elsewhere and it's been like that for years. The reason you buy the long dated maturities is because you think rates have topped and you want the convexity, not for the yield.
Posted by lsu13lsu
Member since Jan 2008
11767 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 11:20 am to
quote:

If Ukraine escalates, or something else geopolitical happens, or some black swan happens


Biggest risk out there has to be China and Taiwan?
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26437 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 11:34 am to
quote:

Buy physical silver and be very, very patient.



Silver isn’t a good hedge against inflation.

It’s a hedge against total collapse when you have to barter it for transportation to another country.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57979 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 11:54 am to
quote:

Biggest risk out there has to be China and Taiwan?


Either or.

If something happens in Ukraine to pull the EU and/or NATO into the fight, then no one is going to be available to help Taiwan out against an aggressive strike by China.
Posted by CajunTiger92
Member since Dec 2007
2861 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:04 am to
Yes long all three, although I started selling my position yesterday. I would say triple inverses are commonly reset daily. There are some instances where I let it ride but it has to be the right set up. Getting hosed over night is always a possibility. Keep in mind, it's part of an overall strategy of hedging long positions. I'm not only in cash and inverse funds, I do have long positions as well.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4292 posts
Posted on 8/31/22 at 11:31 am to
quote:

If something happens in Ukraine to pull the EU and/or NATO into the fight, then no one is going to be available to help Taiwan out against an aggressive strike by China.


Possibly. But other than nuclear escalation, I’d say that probability is rather low. The way it looks lately, given how well the Ukrainians are dusting up the Ruskies, we could send over a couple of Cub Scout troops who are mad that summer vacation is over… and that would tip the balance.

A side note, I need to remember to contact POWW and see if they’re taking donations for ammo again.
Posted by DVinBR
Member since Jan 2013
15300 posts
Posted on 9/1/22 at 4:39 pm to
seeds, guns, bullets baw
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