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Started By
Message
re: PPP Loan Forgiveness App is finally out
Posted on 5/18/20 at 9:44 pm to LSUFanHouston
Posted on 5/18/20 at 9:44 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:I submitted my app within an hour of it becoming available. I was approved at the 11th hour. Actually, it was the day after if was announced they had run out of funds. At that point, I assumed mine didn't go thru, so imagine my surprise when I got the call the next day, late afternoon.
especially at beginning
0
Posted on 5/18/20 at 10:15 pm to greygoose
Yup, if worse case is borrow at 1 percent that’s still quite strong
Posted on 5/19/20 at 7:14 am to LSUFanHouston
I turned in a copy of all my utilities, a yearly report on payroll, etc. to my bank.
I’m trying to figure out what else they would need? Certainly the new updated information to prove I continued to pay the same amounts.
But people are acting like this is confusing or something, I submitted records of everything already. I don’t see what would be any different now?
I’m trying to figure out what else they would need? Certainly the new updated information to prove I continued to pay the same amounts.
But people are acting like this is confusing or something, I submitted records of everything already. I don’t see what would be any different now?
Posted on 5/19/20 at 7:38 am to baldona
quote:
But people are acting like this is confusing or something, I submitted records of everything already. I don’t see what would be any different now?
I think the confusion is in the details and is legitimate.
The flat out failure in design has bugged me from day one. 2 months does not equal 8 weeks - I don't get why they used two different units of measurement, particularly with the 75% rule. Literally, if you keep your payroll exactly constant with what you submitted, you will not the 75% target (but fall 1.5% short). That is ridiculous design.
Also, are you pro rating all of your other monthly expenses to a 8 week measure? Or just cash payroll? Any word on home deduction?
Posted on 5/19/20 at 8:12 am to baldona
quote:
But people are acting like this is confusing or something, I submitted records of everything already. I don’t see what would be any different now?
We know the type of support they will need. Now, the really big issue I see involves pro-rating for expenses incurred during the period but paid by the first due date / payroll run date after the period. I would assume it would be a simple number of days pro-ration, but that needs to be confirmed.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 9:40 am to igoringa
quote:
The flat out failure in design has bugged me from day one. 2 months does not equal 8 weeks - I don't get why they used two different units of measurement, particularly with the 75% rule. Literally, if you keep your payroll exactly constant with what you submitted, you will not the 75% target (but fall 1.5% short). That is ridiculous design.
I think you are overthinking it here. 75% of your PPP was allowed to be used for payroll, you could ask for 25% more up to 50% of one months payroll to be used for utilities and interest.
END OF STORY....
Its not you get 2.5X payroll and use 75% for payroll and 25% for everything else.
Potential and actual ability are two different things.
They made it easy in order to get it done faster. It could have been more complicated certainly, but that takes longer...
Posted on 5/19/20 at 9:51 am to baldona
quote:There is nothing "easy" about this program. It has been fraught with gray areas and vague rules and information. Even now, after many have used about 1/2 of the money, they continue to change/modify the rules or add new rules.
They made it easy in order to get it done faster.
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 9:52 am
Posted on 5/19/20 at 12:20 pm to baldona
quote:
I think you are overthinking it here. 75% of your PPP was allowed to be used for payroll, you could ask for 25% more up to 50% of one months payroll to be used for utilities and interest.
I think I am misstating my point. My point is if you received a loan for 2 months payroll and the 25%, and you kept payroll at the exact same level on an annual basis, you will not hit the 75% payroll requirement.
Lets keep it simple, one employee makes $100K cash with no other comp (again, keeping it easy). Your 2 month payroll would be $16,666 and your loan would be $20,833.
Then comes the forgiveness 8 weeks (NOT 2 months). You would pay this employee $15,385 during the 8 weeks which is 73.8% of the loan. You fail to hit 75%
It is absolutely bizarre that the two measures (2 months and 8 weeks) are not the same length of time. It creates unnecessary complication.
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 5/19/20 at 1:56 pm to igoringa
quote:
My point is if you received a loan for 2 months payroll and the 25%, and you kept payroll at the exact same level on an annual basis, you will not hit the 75% payroll requirement.
I understand that, but it was never 2 months it was always 8 weeks. I'm not sure if SBA or whoever said officially "2 months" but everything I have been going off of is 8 weeks. As in payroll every two weeks so 4 sets of payroll.
Again there's all kinds of people that basically said you can either do it quick or you can do it detailed, it can't be both.
I'm essentially going off it will be 2 months of utility and interest payments for the office, then 8 weeks of payroll.
I think that's fairly simple and over complicating it beyond that for free money is just ignorant.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 1:59 pm to baldona
i'm keeping it simpler than that.
8 weeks payrol (8 paychecks for my 10 people)
2 months blue cross premium
2 months pro-rated SEP contributions
whatever that comes out to, is what i will apply for to be forgiven. if there's money left in the loan, so be it
8 weeks payrol (8 paychecks for my 10 people)
2 months blue cross premium
2 months pro-rated SEP contributions
whatever that comes out to, is what i will apply for to be forgiven. if there's money left in the loan, so be it
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:20 pm to igoringa
quote:
Then comes the forgiveness 8 weeks (NOT 2 months). You would pay this employee $15,385 during the 8 weeks which is 73.8% of the loan. You fail to hit 75%
It is absolutely bizarre that the two measures (2 months and 8 weeks) are not the same length of time. It creates unnecessary complication.
I don't have an answer for you why they are using 8 weeks vs 2 months, except to say, the government does weird things and we just have to accept that.
Failing to hit the 75% means you will get a reduction in forgiveness. It doesn't mean you won't get any forgiveness at all. You just reduce your forgiveness amount by the amount you didn't get to 75% with.
I do believe there will be some leeway if you hit 73.whatever percent based on 8 weeks. But that's not yet in writing.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:23 pm to LSUFanHouston
Hell, there is legislation proposed to extend the 8 weeks to 16 weeks and modify the 75% rule. This thing may change after people start applying for forgiveness with the way things are going.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:25 pm to baldona
quote:
I understand that, but it was never 2 months it was always 8 weeks. I'm not sure if SBA or whoever said officially "2 months" but everything I have been going off of is 8 weeks. As in payroll every two weeks so 4 sets of payroll.
But wasn’t the loan amount based on 2.5x average monthly payroll of 2019?
It doesn’t make sense to have two different measures. There are not only 4 weeks in a month (except February). And most people don’t do a paycheck every 2 weeks.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:28 pm to WDE24
quote:
Hell, there is legislation proposed to extend the 8 weeks to 16 weeks and modify the 75% rule. This thing may change after people start applying for forgiveness with the way things are going.
At this point, NOTHING would surprise me. The earliest people are about 4 weeks in, so they got a few weeks to get this shite together if they are going to make changes.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:31 pm to LSUFanHouston
I think there is bi-partisan support for extending the 8 week period, extending the rehire date, and modifying the 25% rule. The devil in getting a deal done will likely be the Dems desire to include a lot more than PPP fixes in the bill. They had some of the PPP fixes in the HEROES act, but that thing isn't getting passed and the comprehensive next waive of stimulus is unlikely to be done in time for PPP forgiveness issues.
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 5/19/20 at 2:50 pm to WDE24
quote:
I think there is bi-partisan support for extending the 8 week period, extending the rehire date, and modifying the 25% rule.
The initial intention of the PPP was to pay people for the 8 weeks roughly April / May.
But then, they decided to extend unemployment, the number of companies applying were way more than anticipated (meaning the money got out slower), the shutdowns have last longer than we thought they would, etc.
All of that adds up to the fact that the original "goals" of the program are probably no longer applicable.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 8:41 pm to TigerDeBaiter
quote:
But wasn’t the loan amount based on 2.5x average monthly payroll of 2019?
It doesn’t make sense to have two different measures. There are not only 4 weeks in a month (except February). And most people don’t do a paycheck every 2 weeks.
Ok touche I’ll give you that. Honestly my mind was on something else. I agree some of the language was unclear.
But at the end of the day I thought it was clear enough they basically meant 8 weeks of payroll and 2 months of bills. I mean some people get paid weekly and no one assumed it was 10 weeks of pay.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 1:18 pm to LSUFanHouston
This all seems pretty clear to me. A few outstanding questions I have:
1) Will the “8-week” period equal 56 days or 61 days?
2) Can I bonus out my employees (including one employee-owner) to make up for the amount that falls short of the forgivable amount?
3) If payroll 1 fell one day after I received the funds, and payroll 5 falls a week after my 56-day period ends (but nonetheless includes some days that are within the 56-day period), can I include all five payroll periods in my forgiveness calculation?
4) Even though we were willing to pay employees we didn’t need during shutdown for essentially staying home and doing nothing, the government was willing to pay them even more for staying home and doing nothing. As such, many went the unemployment benefit route and it’s been hard to get back up to the FTEs we had before the shutdown. Are they still going to haircut my forgivable amount in light of the government’s own rules which undercut my ability to remain fully staffed? You expect any flexibility here? The way the calculation works, any shortfall in FTEs equals big dollars that aren’t forgiven.
1) Will the “8-week” period equal 56 days or 61 days?
2) Can I bonus out my employees (including one employee-owner) to make up for the amount that falls short of the forgivable amount?
3) If payroll 1 fell one day after I received the funds, and payroll 5 falls a week after my 56-day period ends (but nonetheless includes some days that are within the 56-day period), can I include all five payroll periods in my forgiveness calculation?
4) Even though we were willing to pay employees we didn’t need during shutdown for essentially staying home and doing nothing, the government was willing to pay them even more for staying home and doing nothing. As such, many went the unemployment benefit route and it’s been hard to get back up to the FTEs we had before the shutdown. Are they still going to haircut my forgivable amount in light of the government’s own rules which undercut my ability to remain fully staffed? You expect any flexibility here? The way the calculation works, any shortfall in FTEs equals big dollars that aren’t forgiven.
Posted on 5/22/20 at 10:34 pm to igoringa
quote:
I think I am misstating my point. My point is if you received a loan for 2 months payroll and the 25%, and you kept payroll at the exact same level on an annual basis, you will not hit the 75% payroll requirement.
Lets keep it simple, one employee makes $100K cash with no other comp (again, keeping it easy). Your 2 month payroll would be $16,666 and your loan would be $20,833.
Then comes the forgiveness 8 weeks (NOT 2 months). You would pay this employee $15,385 during the 8 weeks which is 73.8% of the loan. You fail to hit 75%
It is absolutely bizarre that the two measures (2 months and 8 weeks) are not the same length of time. It creates unnecessary complication.
I am running into this. One employee, over $100K last year, capped at $100K annualized for loan forgiveness. I run payroll monthly, and I had to process payroll on 4/26 for April. Found out later that the PPP was funded on April 26.
Only if I can retroactively apply a portion of the PPP toward that payroll, a full month in May, and a partial month in June can I get to the $15,385 and that is below the 75% for full loan forgiveness. I plan on paying the difference back anyway, but this really messes up the calculation since I don’t pay every 8 weeks.
Posted on 5/23/20 at 12:57 pm to cgrand
quote:I know you're up-to-speed, - but for others who might be confused: In addition to health insurance (company-paid portion) and retirement (company contribution), we can also include utilities such as electricity, gas, water, sewerage, and phone service (cell phones and landlines) in your forgiveness application.
i'm keeping it simpler than that.
8 weeks payrol (8 paychecks for my 10 people)
2 months blue cross premium
2 months pro-rated SEP contributions
whatever that comes out to, is what i will apply for to be forgiven. if there's money left in the loan, so be it
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