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re: New to the Forum, any other biotech guys on here????
Posted on 8/13/15 at 8:41 pm to lsutraderman
Posted on 8/13/15 at 8:41 pm to lsutraderman
quote:
Do you have any good literature on the relationship between gene insertion and genotoxity, I would like to think that this is a problem that can be overcome, if not by blue by others in my lifetime but I don't think you can compare blue to some of these other cases or it at least doesn't immediately raise an eyebrow, per se, to me blue is the first one to create a cure using GT
Viral GT is on the edge of my expertise, so take this with a grain of salt.
Go check out the 2011 Molecular Therapy paper on the BLUE site. They discuss the nonzero amount of genomic insertion observed with their lenti vector (what I assume to be theirs). The focus is on insertion near a known oncogene, which they don't observe, but to their credit admit that it's still possible. There are also several good references to associated genotoxicity in that paper.
Maybe in 10 years the field will have fugured out a way to direct genomic insertion 100% away from growth-associated genes, but this is simultaneously why viral approaches will always make me nervous and why gene editing (sequence-directed) seems like it might be a way around this problem.
Posted on 8/13/15 at 9:06 pm to lsutraderman
I don't mean this to be intrusive, but do you mind if I ask how old you are and how long you have been trading or investing in the equity markets?
Posted on 8/13/15 at 9:14 pm to lsutraderman
I've never seen someone so angry about others keeping his awful thread on the 1st page. Are you sure you're a long-time lurker? You really don't know how Internet forums work? You have the thinnest skin I've ever seen, and it's very entertaining. You fail to realize your meltdowns are the reason your thread is still getting views. But you have too much hubris to ignore me and others, so you'll continue to get fricked with. I'll bet you respond to this post. I'll even promise to stop posting in your precious thread if you don't respond to me. You and I both know you can't help yourself.
In the meantime, keep pumping away...

In the meantime, keep pumping away...

Posted on 8/13/15 at 9:25 pm to NaturalBeam
quote:
I've never seen someone so angry about others keeping his awful thread on the 1st page
I've checked in every couple of pages and this is pretty damn sad.
I'm thinking 25 year old cocky kid from another country who has no real people skills.
Posted on 8/13/15 at 9:35 pm to notiger1997
kid from another country? wow nice stereotype skills you developed in the backwoods of LA, actually Im old and I'm ashamed to admit it but from hickville of Lafayette, I don't go back ever but thats where my roots are from, where we got guys like the poster above assuming people are just foreigners from a few paragraphs on the internet.....god man I guess all my colleagues were right seriously in all their assumptions about me bc of where Im from and where I went to school, geez man is that how the average person down south thinks????? WOW
LOL damn I grew up down there, went to USL for a little while, graduated from LSU and moved out to northeast and never looked back, thank the lord, if I stayed Id probably be small minded and make assumptions about immigrants like the guy above.
As to the one poster who actually mentioned anything scientific on this page,Sigma, I got much respect for you because of the questions you ask, you clearly are in this field.......
ill say this bro and ill look into those documents thanks, but there is a flip side to this and its this, BLUE CEO seemed adament to make sure his vector wasnt being compared to others because its a different "mechanism", these "mehanisms" are what you learn about in organic chemistry provided you stick it out, they explain biochemical reactions, which is whats taking place here, say, that this lentiviral vector, say these genotoxic events only occur in 1/5000 patients vs what must have been something like 1/100 or maybe even 1/50 patients for these other vectors, say thats true, well then come on come all for the grand licenses to the only way to create gene therapies without having to call up AGIO a few years later, again way to early, just saying, seems possible to me
ill check out those papers and get back to you though, insertion near a known oncogene,oncogenes cause cancer, man HIV one of the best viruses out there, i have faith it in as a vector, Also sans Thomas Reed at Intrexon, these guys to me at BLUE are the best scientists on the planet, I got no issue betting on these guys
man i think and its high risk though man but BLUE does man have $100B potential, i know thats semi irrelevant to this trade, and i would like to hear what other diseases they think would be on the docket to cure, but these treatments produce pure cures, potential endless here and ill never believe that you cant bring the chances of cancer very close to nil eventually, but things like blindness, deafness, etc, i mean these potentially can be cured here thats not just sci fi anymore
you cant say JUNO,BLCM and KITE or other CAR T names have 100B potential, they dont
which is why i think any buyer in the space, the space being biotech not just Gene Therapy, has to have both eyes on bluebird, well see in the coming days/weeks/months/maybe years, if any of this comes true.....only time will tell
another reply by a clear pumper of course
LOL damn I grew up down there, went to USL for a little while, graduated from LSU and moved out to northeast and never looked back, thank the lord, if I stayed Id probably be small minded and make assumptions about immigrants like the guy above.
As to the one poster who actually mentioned anything scientific on this page,Sigma, I got much respect for you because of the questions you ask, you clearly are in this field.......
ill say this bro and ill look into those documents thanks, but there is a flip side to this and its this, BLUE CEO seemed adament to make sure his vector wasnt being compared to others because its a different "mechanism", these "mehanisms" are what you learn about in organic chemistry provided you stick it out, they explain biochemical reactions, which is whats taking place here, say, that this lentiviral vector, say these genotoxic events only occur in 1/5000 patients vs what must have been something like 1/100 or maybe even 1/50 patients for these other vectors, say thats true, well then come on come all for the grand licenses to the only way to create gene therapies without having to call up AGIO a few years later, again way to early, just saying, seems possible to me
ill check out those papers and get back to you though, insertion near a known oncogene,oncogenes cause cancer, man HIV one of the best viruses out there, i have faith it in as a vector, Also sans Thomas Reed at Intrexon, these guys to me at BLUE are the best scientists on the planet, I got no issue betting on these guys
man i think and its high risk though man but BLUE does man have $100B potential, i know thats semi irrelevant to this trade, and i would like to hear what other diseases they think would be on the docket to cure, but these treatments produce pure cures, potential endless here and ill never believe that you cant bring the chances of cancer very close to nil eventually, but things like blindness, deafness, etc, i mean these potentially can be cured here thats not just sci fi anymore
you cant say JUNO,BLCM and KITE or other CAR T names have 100B potential, they dont
which is why i think any buyer in the space, the space being biotech not just Gene Therapy, has to have both eyes on bluebird, well see in the coming days/weeks/months/maybe years, if any of this comes true.....only time will tell
another reply by a clear pumper of course
This post was edited on 8/13/15 at 9:50 pm
Posted on 8/13/15 at 9:58 pm to TigerDeBaiter
Tigerdebaiter, you've made multiple posts in this thread, not one has been relevant to the topic of the thread, do you just have time to waste in your life? I personally wouldn't waste my time trying to talk to someone about a topic i know nothing about
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:01 pm to lsutraderman
This thread reminds me of some of the iHub boards having high school fights. Let it go traderlsuperson
You're trying to act so smart, yet you aren't realizing how dumb you're being.
You're trying to act so smart, yet you aren't realizing how dumb you're being.
This post was edited on 8/13/15 at 10:03 pm
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:03 pm to thatguy777
Yea Im just gonna ignore anyone not referencing science in any way, there are just entirely too many amateur hour guys in this thread doing nothing but trying to egg me on, sigma and no fox are the only people commenting worth replying to and Im giving them my best answer in reply.
Multiple donkeys in this thread for sure, its kinda funny that they repeatedly try to comment on a subject they literally have no insight whatsoever on, but bless their little hearts they're trying really hard to disprove me and my science.
Its cute grown men try so hard, I admire it
Multiple donkeys in this thread for sure, its kinda funny that they repeatedly try to comment on a subject they literally have no insight whatsoever on, but bless their little hearts they're trying really hard to disprove me and my science.
Its cute grown men try so hard, I admire it
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:06 pm to lsutraderman
Get real man. You don't get it. Quit with the derogatory commentary. This is a great forum. Ppl are here to contribute...for the most part. Don't frick up a good thing. Stop arguing with everyone. God damn it's like talking to my brothers kids
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:07 pm to lsutraderman
quote:You were gonna leave this thread too
Yea Im just gonna ignore anyone not referencing science in any way
Personally I liked your first plan
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:13 pm to lsutraderman
As the oncogenesis rate continues to drop, as you point out, the risk of cancer may be worth the chance if you're effectively cured. In that sense maybe BLUE is a good bet.
But what their doing is a little more cell therapy than gene therapy. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears they are using an ex vivo approach. This is good, as it removes one historical roadblock to gene therapy: delivery toxicity.
IMO gene therapy will never fulfill the expectations from the 90s, for several reasons. However I think there will be specific monogenic diseases where right vector/cell type/ disease combination can be found. Maybe BLUE is close, all I'm saying, and I think you agree, is it's risky. On the plus side, if there's one thing I know about biotech its that people can get rich on hype and potential if the idea is cool and new, or if a great need is met despite some hitches.
(Also FYI the term "mechanism" there is not the pure organic chemistry of DNA/RNA. He means the molecular biology mechanism of the viral action)
But what their doing is a little more cell therapy than gene therapy. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears they are using an ex vivo approach. This is good, as it removes one historical roadblock to gene therapy: delivery toxicity.
IMO gene therapy will never fulfill the expectations from the 90s, for several reasons. However I think there will be specific monogenic diseases where right vector/cell type/ disease combination can be found. Maybe BLUE is close, all I'm saying, and I think you agree, is it's risky. On the plus side, if there's one thing I know about biotech its that people can get rich on hype and potential if the idea is cool and new, or if a great need is met despite some hitches.
(Also FYI the term "mechanism" there is not the pure organic chemistry of DNA/RNA. He means the molecular biology mechanism of the viral action)
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:34 pm to Sigma
Sigma, WOW just WOW you're exactly what I was looking for, an intellectual to hold a deep conversation on some complex science, my brother I found you.
To be honest, fantastic response, Im glad you see the potential in bluebird that all these other guys just assumed I was pumping a stock over. I really don't know i got a couple hours of reading before i can comment further, i will say again, i think its hard to compare blue to previous failures at this point, and playing with genetics hmmmmmm i do have a small theory as i am a believer in God, and it was that he would never let us play God, idk ill get back to you
But man i mean at least at this point, BLUE going after some guys in really bad shape with SCD and Beta Thal, and so far now what 18mo and in dec at ASH will be a full 24 months, will be 2years with no AEs on the b thal patients, that "god theory" doesnt really refer to cures but rather turning me into someone whose 6'7" or making 100% certain my kids 6'7",
regardless though man i think you'd agree, its safe to say that BLUE is further ahead in this field than anyone before in history, and that comparisons to previous GT may not carry over, they have produced cures provided these guys dont get the cancer, no one else ever has as far as i can tell
ill read up and let you know for sure but you know as well as I do, the longer this drags out, the longer lentiglobin has time to work, the odds are we're looking at cures. If anything was wrong with these patients or they died, BLUE would be obligated to tell us, so the longer they do go without any commentary, the odds look better and better.
I respect you immensely for all the questions you threw my way today, thats honestly what I was looking for, bc to me it was like wow man, mathematically this is the best R/R in the market as far as I'm concerned but I wanted someone to throw ice water on my thesis and you definitely brought up some good questions but overall did I do a sufficient job of answering your questions????
also fwiw ive always been attracted to genetics cause its where the power is, even basic things, like those people who feel no pain, even a harvard geneticists a legend in the field has said there is 0 reason why that cant be controlled, i.e turned on/off at will. thats the ultimate pain treatment "drug" ill never believe the end result is always a cancer and if so to me thats God talking then
To be honest, fantastic response, Im glad you see the potential in bluebird that all these other guys just assumed I was pumping a stock over. I really don't know i got a couple hours of reading before i can comment further, i will say again, i think its hard to compare blue to previous failures at this point, and playing with genetics hmmmmmm i do have a small theory as i am a believer in God, and it was that he would never let us play God, idk ill get back to you
But man i mean at least at this point, BLUE going after some guys in really bad shape with SCD and Beta Thal, and so far now what 18mo and in dec at ASH will be a full 24 months, will be 2years with no AEs on the b thal patients, that "god theory" doesnt really refer to cures but rather turning me into someone whose 6'7" or making 100% certain my kids 6'7",
regardless though man i think you'd agree, its safe to say that BLUE is further ahead in this field than anyone before in history, and that comparisons to previous GT may not carry over, they have produced cures provided these guys dont get the cancer, no one else ever has as far as i can tell
ill read up and let you know for sure but you know as well as I do, the longer this drags out, the longer lentiglobin has time to work, the odds are we're looking at cures. If anything was wrong with these patients or they died, BLUE would be obligated to tell us, so the longer they do go without any commentary, the odds look better and better.
I respect you immensely for all the questions you threw my way today, thats honestly what I was looking for, bc to me it was like wow man, mathematically this is the best R/R in the market as far as I'm concerned but I wanted someone to throw ice water on my thesis and you definitely brought up some good questions but overall did I do a sufficient job of answering your questions????
also fwiw ive always been attracted to genetics cause its where the power is, even basic things, like those people who feel no pain, even a harvard geneticists a legend in the field has said there is 0 reason why that cant be controlled, i.e turned on/off at will. thats the ultimate pain treatment "drug" ill never believe the end result is always a cancer and if so to me thats God talking then
This post was edited on 8/13/15 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:54 pm to Iosh
He seems to possess some level of scientific knowledge. And one of the reasons that I joined this board was to interact with people who had knowledge in areas and sectors where I did not possess a lot of knowledge. Considering the broad and varied base of professions represented here, it's a great opportunity to learn and share knowledge and ideas, *if you have a willingness to take advantage of it.* But one cannot share what he knows, or learn from others, if he is thin-skinned, petulant or arrogant.
I've seen no indication that he is an actual "trader", in the truest sense. He lacks money management skills, or at least the ability to demonstrate that he has those skills. And other than using whatever scientific knowledge he has as a basis, his fundamental buy signals seem rather haphazard. What are his buy and sell signals? Does he implement any form of technical analysis, or is it strictly fundamental based? When he suggested that another poster sink his nest egg investment money into a biotech (or any) stock, I wondered what sort of money management knowledge he had. Solid portfolio and money management rules are the surest signs of a "real" trader, or even a longer term investor. Buying stocks on a hunch, or even an educated guess, does not a trader make.
Personally, I hope that, in time, he will see that this approach is not working and he dials it down a notch. And then, with a bit less piss & vinegar in his demeanor, begins (truly) interacting with the investors and traders here. There are not many boards like this in the great, mouth-breathing wasteland of the internet- I've looked! Hopefully he will realize that and do some give & take, without the bravado.
I've seen no indication that he is an actual "trader", in the truest sense. He lacks money management skills, or at least the ability to demonstrate that he has those skills. And other than using whatever scientific knowledge he has as a basis, his fundamental buy signals seem rather haphazard. What are his buy and sell signals? Does he implement any form of technical analysis, or is it strictly fundamental based? When he suggested that another poster sink his nest egg investment money into a biotech (or any) stock, I wondered what sort of money management knowledge he had. Solid portfolio and money management rules are the surest signs of a "real" trader, or even a longer term investor. Buying stocks on a hunch, or even an educated guess, does not a trader make.
Personally, I hope that, in time, he will see that this approach is not working and he dials it down a notch. And then, with a bit less piss & vinegar in his demeanor, begins (truly) interacting with the investors and traders here. There are not many boards like this in the great, mouth-breathing wasteland of the internet- I've looked! Hopefully he will realize that and do some give & take, without the bravado.
Posted on 8/13/15 at 10:58 pm to Jag_Warrior
Jag are you serious? I just mentioned that although I think BLUE is a steal here $35 below the offering it looks like it wants to test $115 on the charts and probably heads down to its 200 dma especially if the XBI stays weak. Technically speaking its weak here
How do I lack money management skills, is that because I said I own nothing but biotech? Good lord man I was an orphan drug discoverer why would I invest in anything besides what I know, you have no idea how my book is balanced, and what kind of greeks I wait for before I attack an options chain, Id chill out on your analysis bc its off base flat out. Im an avid seller of theta bc of how juicy it is in these biotech running into data, ill even toss on a risk reversal occasionally if I see fit. I use multiple backkpreads to try to get more oomph, Iol wtf are you talking about i never discussed how i trade
I don't know wtf you read but I know how to trade, I could probably give lessons on that too, but in bio land the problem with waiting on technicals is you never know when the next buyout is happening and repricing the whole sector, it happened on the PCYC deal in early 2015
but thank you for the few compliments you tossed my way otherwise
and FWIW I'm only smug and arrogant with you guys have no business in this thread, I never came here looking for anything other than a guy like sigma or no fox.....I found him, can we please just have this thread to discuss science, if you guys wanna read our convos and invest fine, but I'm not looking for input from any of you on anything else but science, if you don't have it, then i really don't care what you have to say...
Thanks again
How do I lack money management skills, is that because I said I own nothing but biotech? Good lord man I was an orphan drug discoverer why would I invest in anything besides what I know, you have no idea how my book is balanced, and what kind of greeks I wait for before I attack an options chain, Id chill out on your analysis bc its off base flat out. Im an avid seller of theta bc of how juicy it is in these biotech running into data, ill even toss on a risk reversal occasionally if I see fit. I use multiple backkpreads to try to get more oomph, Iol wtf are you talking about i never discussed how i trade
I don't know wtf you read but I know how to trade, I could probably give lessons on that too, but in bio land the problem with waiting on technicals is you never know when the next buyout is happening and repricing the whole sector, it happened on the PCYC deal in early 2015
but thank you for the few compliments you tossed my way otherwise
and FWIW I'm only smug and arrogant with you guys have no business in this thread, I never came here looking for anything other than a guy like sigma or no fox.....I found him, can we please just have this thread to discuss science, if you guys wanna read our convos and invest fine, but I'm not looking for input from any of you on anything else but science, if you don't have it, then i really don't care what you have to say...
Thanks again
This post was edited on 8/13/15 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 8/13/15 at 11:04 pm to Sigma
I strongly agree with your point about monogenic diseases. I feel like many in molecular biology forget that most traits are polygenic and the interactions between these loci are complex. I think the illumina next generation sequencing platforms are going to do a good job reducing said ignorance. On another note, I think that many of the proposed applications of CRISPER are exciting.
Posted on 8/13/15 at 11:09 pm to lsutraderman
I don't mean you, nor anyone else, any harm. With a thread this long and wandering, if you have spoken on those topics, sorry I missed that. No, I know nothing about you or your trading skill level. It hasn't really come through the noise. And take it to heart, you know nothing about the trading skill levels of others here.
I'm not here to compliment or denigrate. I have my screen name for a reason. But I'm no longer "that way". I have what I have. I am what I am. But it's never too late to learn a new trick.
Anyway, if you're able to constructively convey some of your ideas, I hope in the future to look at them more closely. And if not, that's fine too.
Have a good evening.
I'm not here to compliment or denigrate. I have my screen name for a reason. But I'm no longer "that way". I have what I have. I am what I am. But it's never too late to learn a new trick.
Anyway, if you're able to constructively convey some of your ideas, I hope in the future to look at them more closely. And if not, that's fine too.
Have a good evening.
This post was edited on 8/13/15 at 11:10 pm
Posted on 8/13/15 at 11:19 pm to Jag_Warrior
JAg I relay my ideas in a constructive manner but I get upset when guys who have no idea what they're talking about start commenting. I answered every question if you read the thread from Sigma and NOFOX with a deep scientific knowledge, if you read my posts you'll notice I'm not a high school chemistry buff. I know what Im talking about and I get irked when guys start commenting on the topic of biotech stocks when the have no clue what an orphan drug is and why its different from the drug the most retail name they all hold, GILD, sells.
Like I said anyone else, in any industry would have enough of all the horseplay questions bc they're just a waste of time unless you understand this space. That is why I sought out other biotech investors, guys who understood negative EPS, bad balance sheets, etc don't matter bc you're investing in the science and if its good its acquired. I think all 10 stocks I laid out are horrendous if you're a traditional graham investor and only know about balance sheets. Sigma and NOFOX know science like me and low and behold sigma found bluebird interesting, like any real science fan would
I didn't come here with the intent of being rude but immediately people called me a pumper bc I spoke with gusto and passion, sorry I get a hard on for new treatments, like I said I was an orphan drug discoverer, I get wood over treatments, so sue me. I don't like to waste my time, and 95% of posts in this thread were by amateurs commenting on a space they shouldn't have commented on, and sarcastically. I would have answered every question like i did sigma and no fox if everyone else just simply said I don't know this or i don't know that, but these guys stormed me with nonsense about being a pumper, like I could pump a $5B company on a silly LSU message board where the average guy isn't even worth $100k, yea great target market for a pump job.
Anyways Science guys understand these stocks and how they function, regular people do not, I knew if regular people came it would be a headache.....and it was....it shouldn't have been, the 3-4 science guys in this thread have a lot to discuss and we did so eloquently if you read all the Q & A today between me and sigma
I just want people to stick to discussing what they know, I don't go out my way to discuss what I don't know, and I certainly don't go after self proclaimed experts and try to disprove them in fields like energy and banking, that would be silly of me
Like I said anyone else, in any industry would have enough of all the horseplay questions bc they're just a waste of time unless you understand this space. That is why I sought out other biotech investors, guys who understood negative EPS, bad balance sheets, etc don't matter bc you're investing in the science and if its good its acquired. I think all 10 stocks I laid out are horrendous if you're a traditional graham investor and only know about balance sheets. Sigma and NOFOX know science like me and low and behold sigma found bluebird interesting, like any real science fan would
I didn't come here with the intent of being rude but immediately people called me a pumper bc I spoke with gusto and passion, sorry I get a hard on for new treatments, like I said I was an orphan drug discoverer, I get wood over treatments, so sue me. I don't like to waste my time, and 95% of posts in this thread were by amateurs commenting on a space they shouldn't have commented on, and sarcastically. I would have answered every question like i did sigma and no fox if everyone else just simply said I don't know this or i don't know that, but these guys stormed me with nonsense about being a pumper, like I could pump a $5B company on a silly LSU message board where the average guy isn't even worth $100k, yea great target market for a pump job.
Anyways Science guys understand these stocks and how they function, regular people do not, I knew if regular people came it would be a headache.....and it was....it shouldn't have been, the 3-4 science guys in this thread have a lot to discuss and we did so eloquently if you read all the Q & A today between me and sigma
I just want people to stick to discussing what they know, I don't go out my way to discuss what I don't know, and I certainly don't go after self proclaimed experts and try to disprove them in fields like energy and banking, that would be silly of me
Posted on 8/13/15 at 11:22 pm to lsutraderman
quote:People with SCD are all over the place? What, like 100,000 of them in the US? And how many of those are candidates for this treatment? If 100k is "all over the place", how many of these $10M patients are actually out there? 10k? 1k? Give me a number, man, this is the money board. I mean, this is pretty much targeted at Americans, right? Aren't most of the countries with high SCD rates far too poor to afford it?
Dude there's people with SCD all over the place, they're fine, they take a few pills, and maybe every now and then get a transfusion if it gets bad. People with severe SCD are in and out of hospitals almost weekly, Bluebird mentioned their costs are between $5-10M over a lifetime, transfusions + hospitalizations + in home care costs an absolute fortune.
quote:I know, and the problem with that is you brought this to the money board.
Secondly OMG no pricing is not a concern bc say for whatever reason its only $500k, thats a ton of money and the valuation is way over today's market cap, you're trying to figure out the max valuation for the company and I'm telling you i could care less bc I only care about the matter of does this stuff work
quote:So if the data is good, it goes to $300. What if the data is bad? Does it go to $0, or close to it? $50? If your $300 projection on good news is correct, doesn't that mean the market is putting the odds of good news at less than 50%, basically? What makes you think you know more than the people who DO care about the market, and pricing, and potential revenue, etc? Because you've supposedly done quite well for yourself in the past playing the odds?
I just don't care about the pricing scheme on a product thats years away from market all I care about is december data update, if thats good it skyrockets to $300 prob
quote:Nice to see you use the word "if". There is virtue in self-doubt.
if data holds up
Posted on 8/13/15 at 11:26 pm to lsutraderman
quote:Says the guy who came to a money board refusing to talk about money.
worst of all they all refuse to sit back and learn new things or understand
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