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Is it worth the loans to become a doctor? Would it be wise to consider the military?
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:49 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:49 am
Some of you may know that I am hoping to be a doctor, but the amount of debt I would accrue in med school has always been a source of anxiety. Wouldn't $200,000 give anyone some trepidation? The truth is I know people do it, and they end up making enough income that they can pay it off and still be comfortable, but something about debt has NEVER sat well with me; the tuition is never going to go down, so it just is what it is.
I am fortunate that I got through undergrad at LSU with no debt due to my level of TOPS and other private scholarships. However, coming from a large family, I cannot expect much help from my parents in this endeavor, and at my age, I wouldn't expect it anyway.
Do you think student loans to be a doctor are reasonable because of future salary, or do you think it would be wise to consider the military? The Air Force and Navy have a nice deal that they will pay for all tuition at any school in the country, as well as textbooks, supplies, and a stipend of $1000 a month in addition to the $20,000 you receive by committing. The catch is giving them 4 years of active duty as a physician. (Edited to clarify that is is after residency training. There is a big gap of time between committing and actually serving.)
What are the thoughts of the Money Talk? Many of you are much wiser on finances than myself.
I am fortunate that I got through undergrad at LSU with no debt due to my level of TOPS and other private scholarships. However, coming from a large family, I cannot expect much help from my parents in this endeavor, and at my age, I wouldn't expect it anyway.
Do you think student loans to be a doctor are reasonable because of future salary, or do you think it would be wise to consider the military? The Air Force and Navy have a nice deal that they will pay for all tuition at any school in the country, as well as textbooks, supplies, and a stipend of $1000 a month in addition to the $20,000 you receive by committing. The catch is giving them 4 years of active duty as a physician. (Edited to clarify that is is after residency training. There is a big gap of time between committing and actually serving.)
What are the thoughts of the Money Talk? Many of you are much wiser on finances than myself.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 10:51 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:53 am to schwartzy
My dad did the direct commission route in the Army as an interventional radiologist. Said it was the best decision he ever made.
With the way that medicine is headed in this country, I would not take out huge loans to become a physician.
With the way that medicine is headed in this country, I would not take out huge loans to become a physician.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 10:59 am to schwartzy
Many rural hospitals will pay your loans in return for you practicing there for your first few years after residency.
I wouldn't join the armed forces for essentially the same deal with worse pay.
I wouldn't join the armed forces for essentially the same deal with worse pay.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:21 am to schwartzy
If you think you'd fit well with the Air Force I'd highly recommend it. My whole family (aside from myself) went into the AF or Navy - and for a 4 yr commitment in which you're having your tuition paid for AND getting paid; that's hard to beat.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:23 am to schwartzy
If you are 100% committed to it and know it’s what you want from life, then yes. Elsewise no. I dropped out first semester from a top law school because I realized I wasn’t committed to it.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:26 am to schwartzy
Is your pay in the Air Force not lower? Don't do something that pays less just to get your loans paid off. Do whatever pays the most gross (pay plus loan payoff) for the shortest amount of time.
$200k in loans to make $200k+ is not that bad honestly. Just commit to paying it off. I hate to go Dave Ramsey here, but don't live like a doctor until your loans are paid off. Its not that hard to live off of $75k a year and pay off $75k a year for 3-4 years and then be debt free.
But a lot of it depends on your grades, what kind of doctor, etc. Not sure I'd ever recommend $200k in loans to be a DO.
$200k in loans to make $200k+ is not that bad honestly. Just commit to paying it off. I hate to go Dave Ramsey here, but don't live like a doctor until your loans are paid off. Its not that hard to live off of $75k a year and pay off $75k a year for 3-4 years and then be debt free.
But a lot of it depends on your grades, what kind of doctor, etc. Not sure I'd ever recommend $200k in loans to be a DO.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 11:28 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:28 am to schwartzy
You should first and foremost become a doctor because it is your passion. If it is your passion I would not worry about the loans. All of my doctor friends are ballin
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:35 am to schwartzy
Is it financially worth it? - Yes
But don’t do it for the money. You will delay any actual MD level income by at least 7 years. You would come out ahead if you just started a job somewhere else and saved/invested intelligently. It wouldn’t be worth putting yourself though the academic gauntlet of Med school and residency.
Go to Med school because you want to be a doctor. Otherwise you’ll have a lot of debt, have suffered through almost a decade of school/training, and you will be miserable.
But, I am a doctor and it was worth it financially, but more importantly, it was worth it personally.
But don’t do it for the money. You will delay any actual MD level income by at least 7 years. You would come out ahead if you just started a job somewhere else and saved/invested intelligently. It wouldn’t be worth putting yourself though the academic gauntlet of Med school and residency.
Go to Med school because you want to be a doctor. Otherwise you’ll have a lot of debt, have suffered through almost a decade of school/training, and you will be miserable.
But, I am a doctor and it was worth it financially, but more importantly, it was worth it personally.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:51 am to white perch
quote:
o to Med school because you want to be a doctor
I agree with this sentiment. Don’t do it for the money, do it because you’re interested in it.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:52 am to schwartzy
quote:
Some of you may know that I am hoping to be a doctor, but the amount of debt I would accrue in med school has always been a source of anxiety. Wouldn't $200,000 give anyone some trepidation?
I can’t think of a more lucrative profession. Maybe you could go the investment banking or legal route, but the tuition for the schools that would reasonably score you a Wall Street gig will probably be similar in cost. Obviously everyone expects to graduate at the top of their class, but the salaries for doctors at the bottom of their class far exceed those who finish at the bottom of their class in other endeavors.
Even if all other aspects are equal, nobody else can play the altruism card like medical professionals.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 11:54 am to white perch
Loans are scary and at a high interest rate (6.8% for me), but it will be worth it. If you plan on going into a high reimbursement specialty (GI, IR, Urology, Ortho, cosmetic plastic, etc), I would not recommend going the military route. You could lose up ot $1,000,000 in salary based what you would make in the private sector. If money is the driving force to join the military, don't do it. If you are planning on going into primary care, it might be worth it.
I'm almost to the end of my 5 year indentured servitude (residency), and I can tell you my job prospects are great. It is something I love doing, and it will make financial sense to take out the loans.
I'm almost to the end of my 5 year indentured servitude (residency), and I can tell you my job prospects are great. It is something I love doing, and it will make financial sense to take out the loans.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 12:33 pm to GeauxTigers777
quote:
If you are planning on going into primary care, it might be worth it
I certainly am not ruling out that route, mainly because of my personality. I like the interaction that primary care doctors can provide. However, as we all know, those are often the lowest paying specialties. It may make sense to consider the military more if that's my main interest, because I'll have the same debt load as a neurosurgeon but less income to pay it.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:09 pm to schwartzy
The majority of MDs that I know that also make 1MM+ per year are primary care docs. You just gotta know how to play the game.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:42 pm to schwartzy
If you're called to service and this will work for you, financially, as well - go for it. But, if you are crudely mercenary (and this is America - nothing inherently wrong with that) - don't go into the service solely or even primarily for the money.
Now - I'm not going to lie - finances were a big part of the equation when I finally joined at age 20 - but I had been considering joining for about 7 years at that point - my mother's reservations were the prime deterrent up to that point.
Even with service, I racked up a bunch of debt, so it isn't the be all/end all to your financial challenge, but I have to say that joining was one of the best professional decisions I ever made.
(ETA - I'm an attorney, not a doctor - and I was never an attorney for the Army, but I figured I'd chime in anyway )
Now - I'm not going to lie - finances were a big part of the equation when I finally joined at age 20 - but I had been considering joining for about 7 years at that point - my mother's reservations were the prime deterrent up to that point.
Even with service, I racked up a bunch of debt, so it isn't the be all/end all to your financial challenge, but I have to say that joining was one of the best professional decisions I ever made.
(ETA - I'm an attorney, not a doctor - and I was never an attorney for the Army, but I figured I'd chime in anyway )
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 5/25/18 at 2:50 pm to Ace Midnight
Just realize for like an orthopedic surgeon you would be giving up 300k or more in salary for like a 65k salary. Most doctors can pay off their loans after a few years without tring to
Posted on 5/25/18 at 2:54 pm to schwartzy
My cousin is a doctor and paid back his loans in 2 yrs. Granted, he opened his own practice and has done really well for himself. I think an average DR at a hospital makes like 250k. That's still easily worth 200k in loans compared to most other fields imo
Posted on 5/25/18 at 4:33 pm to schwartzy
That’s the route I would take. Can’t go wrong with Navy or Air Force
Posted on 5/25/18 at 7:05 pm to schwartzy
quote:No.
Is it worth the loans to become a doctor?
It almost certainly is not.
Is that simple enough?
It may be "worth it" for folks who'd eventually benefit from your care
For you, it may be "worth it" if you choose to pursue a career in medicine with the same attitude you would in pursuing a career in the Peace Corps.
Otherwise, "no" it is probably not worth it.
The ONLY basis for pursuing a career in medicine in the current environment is the good you'll do for others. That's it. Period.
There is no reasonable financial argument for the choice.
There is only the good of your potential contributions to others' well-being, albeit at great personal sacrifice.
Do NOT make the choice for money.
If making money is anywhere on your decision screen, choose another field.
If money is a goal, you'll almost inevitably regret the choice.
Money may come, but almost assuredly not to the extent it would if you set your goals on a Wall Street, Corporate, or Consulting position.
Here is the problem:
Medicine is going through a paradigm shift 2° to Obamacare.
Over the years, some of us have done extremely well in the field. Extremely well. But we did that against the odds. Inevitably we did it vis-a-vis smart business decisions rather than via isolated medical care, no matter how good.
Long story short after Obamacare, many many physicians, who in the past would have been self-employed and self-directed, will for the next decade or more be relegated to working for administrators with limited or nonexistent medical backgrounds. Meanwhile the same admins will make 5-50 fold more than the physicians they employ. No exaggeration.
Though I don't see such a bottom-up hierarchy as sustainable, it will remain lay-of-the-land in many specialties for the next decade or two.
If you will be okay working for folks who were academically well behind you in HS and college simply for the love of patient care and well-being, then medical school may be for you. If you will not be frustrated working for folks who were academically well behind you, yet are making shocking sums compared with your income, medical school is probably a reasonable option for you.
Just go into it for the right reasons. Do it for altruism. Do it because you can. Do it because if you don't, there will be a void others cannot fill. It's too long, too hard, and far too demanding a haul for you to find yourself looking back with regret if/when your income underperforms your financial potential.
ETA: HPSP/TheMilitaryOption is a decent option . . . especially if you choose a "high demand" surgical field. If not, you might get pulled into GMO (general practice) duty, deferring your residency until after you've completed your military time. I went the HPSP route FYI. Great choice for me. Completed Residency/Fellowship outside, then served my my 4 for 4.
This post was edited on 5/26/18 at 4:15 am
Posted on 5/25/18 at 7:39 pm to NC_Tigah
It is not the slam dunk it once was. Bureaucracy and Insurance barons have made it less attractive and not as profitable. Like others have said do it because it is a calling to serve humanity. The military might be a good choice here since you hate debt.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 7:40 pm to tigerbacon
quote:I'd guess an ortho MD would pull closer to $120-150K in the military.
Just realize for like an orthopedic surgeon you would be giving up 300k or more in salary for like a 65k salary. Most doctors can pay off their loans after a few years without tring to
But relative to your point, you are actually "giving up" income in your peak years, not straight off.
E.g., If one starts off $500K-$1M in start up practice debt, yet 15yrs later peaks at clearing $1.5M/yr income, the time spent in the military could be said to cost much more than you claim . . . i.e., $1.35M/yr of military service. Four fewer "peak" years.
OTOH, the military route is no where near an obligatory static loss. Administrative/leadership opportunities can far outstrip anything one would experience at similar experience levels in private practice. So it may contribute to post-military financial opportunity.
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