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Do you know anyone who is a "day trader" who made it?
Posted on 8/20/19 at 7:42 am
Posted on 8/20/19 at 7:42 am
Guy I know (successful with his own business) has been recently getting into trading (and, of course, posting about it). I had another friend who recently messaged me asking about my thoughts on day trading (and I told him I thought black jack was a better long term strategy).
I have never dabbled in trading, but from what amateur research I have come across it is basically impossible to really make it over the long haul. Hell, even the professionals at the top of the industry aren't that great and have to rely on imperfect information and complicated assets only they understand to truly separate themselves (which isn't about trading at its core).
This is all fool's gold, right?
I have never dabbled in trading, but from what amateur research I have come across it is basically impossible to really make it over the long haul. Hell, even the professionals at the top of the industry aren't that great and have to rely on imperfect information and complicated assets only they understand to truly separate themselves (which isn't about trading at its core).
This is all fool's gold, right?
12
Posted on 8/20/19 at 7:45 am to SlowFlowPro
A few, but it’s rare and all options based
Posted on 8/20/19 at 7:56 am to LSUtoOmaha
I imagine (and I could be wrong) they just hit the perfect timing on a few huge trades (esp in options).
Some people are going to make money, lots of it, just based on pure luck (more timing than the decisions).
I know I do this a lot but I can compare it to poker. Hitting a 2-outer in a $50 pot is a lot different than in a $100 tournament than in a $500 tournament than in the Main Event. Same odds of hitting that long shot but drastically different results based on timing.
Some people are going to make money, lots of it, just based on pure luck (more timing than the decisions).
I know I do this a lot but I can compare it to poker. Hitting a 2-outer in a $50 pot is a lot different than in a $100 tournament than in a $500 tournament than in the Main Event. Same odds of hitting that long shot but drastically different results based on timing.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 8:32 am to SlowFlowPro
just one
He's a bit cryptic about the whole thing, nobody is still too sure the details. As far as we can surmise, he hit a homerun on one very specific stock. He didnt "work" for the better part of 10+ years. But I heard that recently he's working again, seems like he may have had a bit too much fun with his fortune and blew thru it.
All the other "day traders" I've come across bailed out and went back to reality after a while
He's a bit cryptic about the whole thing, nobody is still too sure the details. As far as we can surmise, he hit a homerun on one very specific stock. He didnt "work" for the better part of 10+ years. But I heard that recently he's working again, seems like he may have had a bit too much fun with his fortune and blew thru it.
All the other "day traders" I've come across bailed out and went back to reality after a while
Posted on 8/20/19 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
The concept is there but it’s like how many 10% loss trades can you afford before you hit a big win. If you started out with a pretty good amount of money and were patient enough to play really good setups I could see it working. I follow a few people that make it seem like they’re successful, but obviously you don’t see their balance sheet
Posted on 8/20/19 at 10:26 am to Upperdecker
i think it falls under those "you can be successful" industries where it's much more profitable to teach the industry than work in it
i need to work on a name for these
other areas that are very popular: poker, house flipping, fantasy football and sports betting. an area that may be approaching this is SEO/internet marketing
*ETA: i'm not saying you can't make money in these areas, but only that top tier (which changes based on the activity) do. that's why selling "how to" is more profitable over the long term (with much lower upside)
i need to work on a name for these
other areas that are very popular: poker, house flipping, fantasy football and sports betting. an area that may be approaching this is SEO/internet marketing
*ETA: i'm not saying you can't make money in these areas, but only that top tier (which changes based on the activity) do. that's why selling "how to" is more profitable over the long term (with much lower upside)
This post was edited on 8/20/19 at 10:28 am
Posted on 8/20/19 at 10:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i think it falls under those "you can be successful" industries where it's much more profitable to teach the industry than work in it
Boom. Check out the fintwit wannabes that sell services just based on simple charting setups. It's hilarious.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 10:35 am to SlowFlowPro
I follow some guys on Twitter who seem to have made it. It's incredibly challenging. They are all options and futures based. It's emotionally draining and takes significant disciplined.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 10:37 am to SlowFlowPro
That's genius.
Yes, SEO and social media marketing fall under that umbrella.
Yes, SEO and social media marketing fall under that umbrella.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 10:43 am to SlowFlowPro
Start with 2 million and hope to retire a millionaire.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 11:17 am to SlowFlowPro
Yes, but its not sexy and its a total grind. Options is basically selling insurance and you can make reasonable returns but you have to have a really good system and understand your exposure at all times. Like poker I think its one of those things that sound cool but in reality its a total fricking grind 95% of the time.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 1:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
For sure it’s mostly people that make themselves look good and sell their “system” by promoting themselves on their good trades
I do follow a couple people that don’t sell a system and seem to actually make money. These guys are doing charts on penny stocks mostly and following volume and scalping it. One guy looks for stocks that gap up overnight, then buys in near open hoping they’ll go higher on volume. Sets a 10% stop loss. It’s hard to tell how many he wins and loses but tracking his supposed entries and where the stock goes, he appears to make money
Edit: I think it’s probably extremely stressful and I would not want to do it as my only income. If you want to make $50k a year after tax you need to make around $1400 a week. And that’s your net gain, after you’ve made up for losses. To do that you need to be risking a pretty significant amount of money
I do follow a couple people that don’t sell a system and seem to actually make money. These guys are doing charts on penny stocks mostly and following volume and scalping it. One guy looks for stocks that gap up overnight, then buys in near open hoping they’ll go higher on volume. Sets a 10% stop loss. It’s hard to tell how many he wins and loses but tracking his supposed entries and where the stock goes, he appears to make money
Edit: I think it’s probably extremely stressful and I would not want to do it as my only income. If you want to make $50k a year after tax you need to make around $1400 a week. And that’s your net gain, after you’ve made up for losses. To do that you need to be risking a pretty significant amount of money
This post was edited on 8/20/19 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 8/20/19 at 1:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
not gonna make as a true day trader. Some of the bond guys sitting on a trade desk make money, but that's cause they are making markets or making a spread off of some clients. There was some opportunities a while back for triangular arbitrage type situations in cryptos because the market was inefficient. Occasionally some of the FX guys will have that opportunity but it is rare these days. Some of the commodity guys can make a buck or 2. As a whole though no. The algorithm guys were making money by moving networks closer to the exchange computers allowing them a microsecond to be ahead, but that has pretty much ended as well.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 1:21 pm to Upperdecker
Also followed another guy that would do some trades during normal hours that were so-so, then would do more trades after hours. The after hours trades were in low volume and he had a lot of followers, so it would make a big difference in stock price, then he would sell for a profit and leave some of his followers with the bags, but get more followers from the successful trade. Pretty sure this guy is being investigated by the SEC bc he’s had gaps where he wasn’t allowed to post
Posted on 8/20/19 at 1:25 pm to yatesdog38
quote:
not gonna make as a true day trader. Some of the bond guys sitting on a trade desk make money, but that's cause they are making markets or making a spread off of some clients. There was some opportunities a while back for triangular arbitrage type situations in cryptos because the market was inefficient. Occasionally some of the FX guys will have that opportunity but it is rare these days. Some of the commodity guys can make a buck or 2. As a whole though no. The algorithm guys were making money by moving networks closer to the exchange computers allowing them a microsecond to be ahead, but that has pretty much ended as well.
Eh, you can make it, but you better be able to pinpoint inefficiencies or moves that don’t make sense in the grand scheme, and also be willing to use leverage and options
Posted on 8/20/19 at 1:41 pm to SlowFlowPro
I have an uncle who does it. He was a very successful attorney, and he does well trading, but he works more as a trader, than he did as a lawyer.
You have to start out with a wad of cash you can afford to lose, and move like every move is going to make you a fortune while you know it is more likely to be a loser. He does it because he can, and he likes to gamble. I'm sure if you dig through the records he is behind.
You have to start out with a wad of cash you can afford to lose, and move like every move is going to make you a fortune while you know it is more likely to be a loser. He does it because he can, and he likes to gamble. I'm sure if you dig through the records he is behind.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 1:45 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
Options markets are either super thin or wide spreads. If they are thinly traded options it is easy to get on the wrong side of a trade and then have to eat the spread on the other side. Heavily traded options you can get lucky on the shorter maturity side but trying to day trade anything months out you deal with more factors and intraday trades don't have much price swings. This year has been good because of the high volatility. Last year was a shite year to be trading options because of low volatility.
Day trading leveraged ETN's you can make some money, but huge risk there.
we are talking about day trading not buy and hold for 2 days. A pattern day trader is taking a position and then selling it before it settles. Typically requires margin unless you are cash settling and if you are doing that you aren't going to get a good price.
Feel free to day trade. You can do what you want.
Day trading leveraged ETN's you can make some money, but huge risk there.
we are talking about day trading not buy and hold for 2 days. A pattern day trader is taking a position and then selling it before it settles. Typically requires margin unless you are cash settling and if you are doing that you aren't going to get a good price.
Feel free to day trade. You can do what you want.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 7:02 pm to yatesdog38
Right. Plenty of people make it full time by selling premium over and over again. But those guys aren't making 20 trades a day.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 7:32 pm to LSUtoOmaha
If the best on Wall Street can't do it, doubt you will. They gotta lot more info.
Posted on 8/20/19 at 8:35 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i need to work on a name for these
other areas that are very popular: poker, house flipping, fantasy football and sports betting. an area that may be approaching this is SEO/internet marketing
When all else fails, become a consultant!
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