- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Dad Retiring Soon looking for 401K advice
Posted on 6/26/24 at 10:43 am
Posted on 6/26/24 at 10:43 am
My Dad is retiring in a few months and isn't savvy with investing. He will be drawing a pension and also has around $400,000 in his company 401K. He told me yesterday he talked to someone at Fidelity who suggested rolling his 401k into a Fidelity IRA and let them manage it for around 1% fee. When I explained they would be taking $4K a year he realized that was kind of high. I told him I could help him pick some funds based on whatever risk he wanted to take on.
Any advice on what to do with the 401K? I'm tempted to just do some CD ladders.
Any advice on what to do with the 401K? I'm tempted to just do some CD ladders.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 11:16 am to Kemosabie
Is the pension enough to cover all his expenses?
Posted on 6/26/24 at 11:19 am to Kemosabie
If you want to ladder CD’s, then please have him hire Fidelity.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 11:32 am to Kemosabie
1% is a lot to pay if you ask me but typical.
But if he has no idea and you think CD ladder but ask for advice w none of the pertinent factors to consider, I don't think you're well equipped to self manage.
What is his risk tolerance?
Projected income/expenses?
Desired withdrawal rate?
Age? Expected longevity?
Does he have a spouse? Does pension continue after death if so and what %.
Is pension inflation adjusted?
Does he plan take SS?
When and what is projected benefit?
That's just a few things off top of head that are pertinent.
If you self manage, a 3 fund portfolio (you'd need to figure out weighting based on above factors +) or even easier a target date fund that auto rebalances.
Can't just assume the target fund or a generic stock/bond allocation for his retirement year fits his needs or risk tolerance.
But if he has no idea and you think CD ladder but ask for advice w none of the pertinent factors to consider, I don't think you're well equipped to self manage.
What is his risk tolerance?
Projected income/expenses?
Desired withdrawal rate?
Age? Expected longevity?
Does he have a spouse? Does pension continue after death if so and what %.
Is pension inflation adjusted?
Does he plan take SS?
When and what is projected benefit?
That's just a few things off top of head that are pertinent.
If you self manage, a 3 fund portfolio (you'd need to figure out weighting based on above factors +) or even easier a target date fund that auto rebalances.
Can't just assume the target fund or a generic stock/bond allocation for his retirement year fits his needs or risk tolerance.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 11:33 am to CougarBait
If you want to ladder CD’s, then please have him hire Fidelity.
----
I was thinking the exact same thing.
----
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 11:55 am to TorchtheFlyingTiger
All the above mentioned by Flying Tiger plus most large brokerages offer some sort of low cost/no cost robo-advisor service where you put in all the data above and a little more and it will give you a suggested portfolio to invest in. If you really don't know what to do, that is as good as any place to start.
If you want a little more, you can pay a little more and get additional services but I think you'll end up paying that 1% for any serious upgrade.
I wouldn't do it, but if someone who knew nothing was asking me what to do I would say to do that, then watch the various investments and see how they behave, and if you want something different make some small changes until you like what you have.
On the other hand, some people just want to do this in autopilot. The robo-adviser is probably as good as any choice for them.
If you want a little more, you can pay a little more and get additional services but I think you'll end up paying that 1% for any serious upgrade.
I wouldn't do it, but if someone who knew nothing was asking me what to do I would say to do that, then watch the various investments and see how they behave, and if you want something different make some small changes until you like what you have.
On the other hand, some people just want to do this in autopilot. The robo-adviser is probably as good as any choice for them.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 12:01 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
Good questions - between pension and SS, he just wants his 401K to get him to his current annual income - my guess would be ~$20K a year withdrawal. He's not married (nor dating anyone) so no spousal considerations at this point at least. He's 65 and in decent health so should have many years ahead. I gather he mainly doesn't want to lose money and if it grows at all then great. He mentioned doing a 40/60 stock bond split.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 12:30 pm to Kemosabie
The free robo advisors take into account age and retirement status. Just use one of them.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 12:32 pm to Kemosabie
Definitely wouldn't go CD ladder if he needs to draw ~5% annually plus inflation for 20-30 yrs.
Gonna need to hone in on those #s. A lot will depend on if he needs the $ to make ends meet or if there is a good deal of flexibility in his spending so he has option to reduce withdrwals in a bear market .
Probably going to need to be more risk on to sustain 4-5% withdrawals and keep up w inflation for 20+ yrs. Trinity study was 60/40 stock bond if I recall w 4-4.6% safe withdrwal rate for a 20 year retirement w single digit probability of failure.
Also, is spending projected to be level, drop off as he ages, or increase w medical/long term care? Does he need to keep capital to fund a decent long term facility for instance or willing to go broke and into whatever lower quality option govt will subsidize?
Gonna need to hone in on those #s. A lot will depend on if he needs the $ to make ends meet or if there is a good deal of flexibility in his spending so he has option to reduce withdrwals in a bear market .
Probably going to need to be more risk on to sustain 4-5% withdrawals and keep up w inflation for 20+ yrs. Trinity study was 60/40 stock bond if I recall w 4-4.6% safe withdrwal rate for a 20 year retirement w single digit probability of failure.
Also, is spending projected to be level, drop off as he ages, or increase w medical/long term care? Does he need to keep capital to fund a decent long term facility for instance or willing to go broke and into whatever lower quality option govt will subsidize?
This post was edited on 6/26/24 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 6/26/24 at 12:41 pm to Kemosabie
quote:
He told me yesterday he talked to someone at Fidelity who suggested rolling his 401k into a Fidelity IRA and let them manage it for around 1% fee.
That’s the right answer.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 12:56 pm to Kemosabie
Use the 400k as a down payment on an apartment complex and hire a management company.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 1:14 pm to Kemosabie
Unless you are extremely knowledgeable, and can get a very good gauge of his true risk tolerance, I would steer him somewhere else. Do you want to be at the table at Christmas dinner, knowing that your dad is stressed over a recent market correction, and that you are his point of contact? I have read articles about friends who volunteered to give advice to other friends, only to have things go south, along with the friendship. Your upside is saving your dad a couple of thousand $ per year. Downside seems greater than that.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 2:33 pm to Bdiddy
I'm trying to steer my mothwr to a fee based fiduciary advisor to avoid that dilemma. I don't want the responsibility of her financial future on my shoulders and know I'll be challenged to convince her to stay the course in a downturn. She already made mistake of shifting too large a chunk out of market past couple years and is now sitting on a pile of cash in taxable doing nothing despite my urging to allocate it to something if only a HYSA. She need someone to take the reigns.
I just don't know how to vet a FA and find one that won't sell her and will charge for services only such as building and periodically reviewing a plan rather than charging AUM.
Looked at XY Planning Network and Fee Only Network but not sure how to determine who is legit and a good fit. Not to mention can't persuade them to take time to interview FAs and make a plan.
I'll probably just have to hire someone to look at my FIRE plan and if satisfied steer my mother to them.
I just don't know how to vet a FA and find one that won't sell her and will charge for services only such as building and periodically reviewing a plan rather than charging AUM.
Looked at XY Planning Network and Fee Only Network but not sure how to determine who is legit and a good fit. Not to mention can't persuade them to take time to interview FAs and make a plan.
I'll probably just have to hire someone to look at my FIRE plan and if satisfied steer my mother to them.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 3:22 pm to TheBoo
quote:
Use the 400k as a down payment on an apartment complex and hire a management company.
No offense intended, but this is not good advice at all. I’ve been in real estate since the 80s… and it has served me well. But even I would not put 100% of my available retirement assets into a single rental property - and I have decades of experience in residential and commercial real estate.
If the OP’s father has some experience in rental real estate, then he might put some portion of his retirement assets into that area… just not all of it. But if he has no experience, then he’d be better off sticking with investments that he and his son can more easily understand and manage.
My advice to the son/OP is to carefully read Torch’s posts and then make more thoughtful (than CD ladders) steps going forward.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 3:39 pm to TorchtheFlyingTiger
Torch makes some good points.
When Dad turns 73 he'll also be required to take minimum distributions from his 401k. That's roughly 4% .While not an immediate concern something to consider in the overall plan.
When Dad turns 73 he'll also be required to take minimum distributions from his 401k. That's roughly 4% .While not an immediate concern something to consider in the overall plan.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 4:37 pm to bigjoe1
I let Fidelity manage mine. Started years ago. I feel good about paying them. I feel like I’m in good hands. I sleep well at nite.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 5:57 pm to Kemosabie
The 1% fee may seem high for the DIY crowd but if your dad has no interest to manage it himself then it's fine.
When my parents retired, they let Fidelity manage their portfolio for a few years. My mom asked me if I wanted to manage it but I was hesitant at the time as I didn't want to screw it up.
After watching what Fidelity did for a few years, I changed my mind and took over management. My only real complaint with Fidelity was using funds with higher fees. The Fidelity Spartan funds didn't exist at the time.
Here is what I'd do with your dad. First figure out what his average annual basic expenses are for a comfortable lifestyle . Call that amount, X.
At a high level, I would build a TIPS ladder that would provide X income per year that is inflation adjusted. TIPS bonds are very attractive right now as they are returning 2% real (not nominal) return above inflation.
https://home.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/TextView?type=daily_treasury_real_yield_curve&field_tdr_date_value_month=202406
This site built by a Boglehead tells you exactly what TIPS bonds to buy for a ladder:
https://www.tipsladder.com/
Now since your dad has a pension, you could reduce X by that amount. Also if he will take SS, then you could reduce X by that amount as well. If he is delaying SS then you'll have to adjust and factor it in (that site lets you specify desired income by specific year).
Assuming that he still has money left in his portfolio after building the ladder, you could stick the rest in a stock index fund.
With this approach, every year his basic expenses are covered by the TIPS ladder/pension/SS basically risk free. The TIPS and SS are both inflation adjusted which is what most people worry about in retirement. Not sure if pension is COLA or not.
Every year, he can sell some of the stock index fund to increase his income for that year.
Fyi I'm in striking distance of early retirement and my plan is to build a TIPS ladder that will last until at least until I start taking SS at 70. I've already sold all bond funds in my IRA and have a built a 15 year TIPS ladder. Over the next few years as the stock market goes up, I will add more to each rung of my ladder. If TIPS yields in the future look terrible compared to nominal bonds, then I will buy regular treasuries instead.
When my parents retired, they let Fidelity manage their portfolio for a few years. My mom asked me if I wanted to manage it but I was hesitant at the time as I didn't want to screw it up.
After watching what Fidelity did for a few years, I changed my mind and took over management. My only real complaint with Fidelity was using funds with higher fees. The Fidelity Spartan funds didn't exist at the time.
Here is what I'd do with your dad. First figure out what his average annual basic expenses are for a comfortable lifestyle . Call that amount, X.
At a high level, I would build a TIPS ladder that would provide X income per year that is inflation adjusted. TIPS bonds are very attractive right now as they are returning 2% real (not nominal) return above inflation.
https://home.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/TextView?type=daily_treasury_real_yield_curve&field_tdr_date_value_month=202406
This site built by a Boglehead tells you exactly what TIPS bonds to buy for a ladder:
https://www.tipsladder.com/
Now since your dad has a pension, you could reduce X by that amount. Also if he will take SS, then you could reduce X by that amount as well. If he is delaying SS then you'll have to adjust and factor it in (that site lets you specify desired income by specific year).
Assuming that he still has money left in his portfolio after building the ladder, you could stick the rest in a stock index fund.
With this approach, every year his basic expenses are covered by the TIPS ladder/pension/SS basically risk free. The TIPS and SS are both inflation adjusted which is what most people worry about in retirement. Not sure if pension is COLA or not.
Every year, he can sell some of the stock index fund to increase his income for that year.
Fyi I'm in striking distance of early retirement and my plan is to build a TIPS ladder that will last until at least until I start taking SS at 70. I've already sold all bond funds in my IRA and have a built a 15 year TIPS ladder. Over the next few years as the stock market goes up, I will add more to each rung of my ladder. If TIPS yields in the future look terrible compared to nominal bonds, then I will buy regular treasuries instead.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 9:32 am to gpburdell
Thanks for all the insight, everyone. He's coming in town today so I can get more details/discuss some options. I think he has a call with Fidelity on Tues that I may join.
I believe his pension is just a % of his final income for every year of service - so doesn't sound like it has any COLA. I need to also confirm he'll get to maintain health insurance through his employer in addition to Medicare. He turns 65 in a couple of days so he gets full SS upon retirement and plans to take it. I think between SS and pension he could more than cover his expenses, but wants to use the 401K for a more comfortable lifestyle. In that sense, it's not huge pressure if I were to manage it (i.e., not a huge expectation to grow it, just not lose anything), but also agree that if things go south while using Fidelity, it's better them than me.
FWIW I let Fidelity manage my 401K (that I max every year) since my employer uses them, but the % percentage is like .25% so I'm ok with a few hundred bucks a year. I have mixed feelings about their performance. I have them set it aggressive but never match the S&P annual returns since it's so diversified. If I had to do it over again, I'd just put in all in S&P index fund, but oh well.
I believe his pension is just a % of his final income for every year of service - so doesn't sound like it has any COLA. I need to also confirm he'll get to maintain health insurance through his employer in addition to Medicare. He turns 65 in a couple of days so he gets full SS upon retirement and plans to take it. I think between SS and pension he could more than cover his expenses, but wants to use the 401K for a more comfortable lifestyle. In that sense, it's not huge pressure if I were to manage it (i.e., not a huge expectation to grow it, just not lose anything), but also agree that if things go south while using Fidelity, it's better them than me.
FWIW I let Fidelity manage my 401K (that I max every year) since my employer uses them, but the % percentage is like .25% so I'm ok with a few hundred bucks a year. I have mixed feelings about their performance. I have them set it aggressive but never match the S&P annual returns since it's so diversified. If I had to do it over again, I'd just put in all in S&P index fund, but oh well.
This post was edited on 6/27/24 at 9:33 am
Posted on 6/27/24 at 1:00 pm to Kemosabie
One consideration for you is to self manage his account based on how your account is managed at Fidelity.
I have used a 3 bucket approach for years. It still works in retirement with an adjustment for the % in each bucket to fit your risk tolerance. I make adjustments about once a year to move money between buckets.
Short term/emergency fund. This should have enough money for a year or so of expenses. Cash, CD ladder, Treasury bonds
Medium term. Money you might spend in 1-5 years. CDs,Bonds, some stocks, ETFs, s&p500.
Long Term. Money you won't need within 5 years. Would recommend to put all of this in the s&p500. The 500 beats the market and most other options in the long run.
I retired 5 years ago and still have 75% of my 401k in stocks,with the majority in the s&p500 and Russell1000. Conventional thinking will tell you to have a smaller % in stocks in retirement, but history shows little risk of the market staying down for 5 years.
I have used a 3 bucket approach for years. It still works in retirement with an adjustment for the % in each bucket to fit your risk tolerance. I make adjustments about once a year to move money between buckets.
Short term/emergency fund. This should have enough money for a year or so of expenses. Cash, CD ladder, Treasury bonds
Medium term. Money you might spend in 1-5 years. CDs,Bonds, some stocks, ETFs, s&p500.
Long Term. Money you won't need within 5 years. Would recommend to put all of this in the s&p500. The 500 beats the market and most other options in the long run.
I retired 5 years ago and still have 75% of my 401k in stocks,with the majority in the s&p500 and Russell1000. Conventional thinking will tell you to have a smaller % in stocks in retirement, but history shows little risk of the market staying down for 5 years.
Posted on 6/27/24 at 1:26 pm to Kemosabie
quote:
I have them set it aggressive but never match the S&P annual returns since it's so diversified. If I had to do it over again, I'd just put in all in S&P index fund, but oh well.
Proper diversity becomes apparent during downturns. You lose less during those periods so that over the long haul, the earnings are still very good.
Popular
Back to top
