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borrowed automobile accident scenario, who is liable?
Posted on 9/12/16 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 9/12/16 at 5:48 pm
lets say a friend/family borrows your vehicle. friend/family gets into an accident and is at fault. who is responsible if the medical costs exceed the owner of the vehicles insurance policy? driver of the vehicle or owner?
This scenario takes place in Louisiana.
This scenario takes place in Louisiana.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 5:49 pm
7
Posted on 9/12/16 at 6:11 pm to diat150
I believe the borrower's policy would cover the excess.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 6:39 pm to diat150
Driver/driver's insurance unless a negligent entrustment issue, which is a rare claim.
Posted on 9/13/16 at 2:24 pm to diat150
Insurance follows the driver. If the driver did not have their own vehicle/policy, then the vehicle's owner policy would provide coverage, assuming the driver had permissive use from the vehicle owner.
Posted on 9/13/16 at 6:54 pm to dragginass
in most cases the insurance will follow the car.
This post was edited on 9/13/16 at 6:58 pm
Posted on 9/13/16 at 9:02 pm to diat150
Insurance on the vehicle comes first as long as the driver is a permissive user. The drivers insurance is secondary to the insurance on the vehicle.
In the end, the owner of the car is not responsible even though his insurance coverage covers the driver as an insured under the policy. There are two exceptions to that I can think of: 1) As someone pointed out before, if there was negligent entrustment of the vehicle (example, if you lent tthe car to someone you knew was drunk or someone you know should not be driving, think a 10 year old). And 2). If the vehicle itself may have been a cause of the accident (Think bald tires or lending a car out knowing the lights don't work at night).
Assuming there is no negligent entrustment, the driver himself is responsible for any amount owed above the available policy limits.
In the end, the owner of the car is not responsible even though his insurance coverage covers the driver as an insured under the policy. There are two exceptions to that I can think of: 1) As someone pointed out before, if there was negligent entrustment of the vehicle (example, if you lent tthe car to someone you knew was drunk or someone you know should not be driving, think a 10 year old). And 2). If the vehicle itself may have been a cause of the accident (Think bald tires or lending a car out knowing the lights don't work at night).
Assuming there is no negligent entrustment, the driver himself is responsible for any amount owed above the available policy limits.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 10:19 am to igotit
Thanks for all of the downvotes, but you all are very wrong.
Scenario: Your buddy Joe borrows your pickup because his car can't haul his 4 wheeler. He wrecks your truck into the back of a SUV. Since Joe is not a listed driver on your policy, but he did have permissive use,and since he has a vehicle currently insured, HIS policy becomes primary and covers the liability/loss.
It's not this way in every state, but it is this way in Louisiana.
Scenario: Your buddy Joe borrows your pickup because his car can't haul his 4 wheeler. He wrecks your truck into the back of a SUV. Since Joe is not a listed driver on your policy, but he did have permissive use,and since he has a vehicle currently insured, HIS policy becomes primary and covers the liability/loss.
It's not this way in every state, but it is this way in Louisiana.
This post was edited on 9/14/16 at 10:26 am
Posted on 9/14/16 at 12:07 pm to Bigsweet
quote:
Insurance on the vehicle comes first as long as the driver is a permissive user.
Not in Louisiana. See La. RS 22:1296.
quote:
§1296. Coverage of temporary, substitute, and rental vehicles A. Every approved insurance company, reciprocal or exchange, writing automobile liability, physical damage, or collision insurance, shall extend to temporary substitute motor vehicles as defined in the applicable insurance policy and rental motor vehicles any and all such insurance coverage in effect in the original policy or policies. Where an insured has coverage on a single or multiple vehicles, at least one of which has comprehensive and collision or liability insurance coverage, those coverages shall apply to the temporary substitute motor vehicle, as defined in the applicable insurance policy, or rental motor vehicle. Such insurance shall be primary. However, if other automobile insurance coverage or financial responsibility protection is purchased by the insured for the temporary substitute or rental motor vehicle, that coverage shall become primary. The coverage purchased by the insured shall not be considered a collateral source.
ETA: looks like I'm wrong and the definition of "temporary vehicle" is much more complex.
This post was edited on 9/14/16 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 9/14/16 at 12:44 pm to diat150
In this exact situation, because the friend wasn't borrowing your car because his car was broken down, being repaired, being serviced, damaged or stolen, the owner's insurance policy comes first. If that policy is exhausted, the driver's insurance policy would cover any damages exceeding the owner's policy. If the damages exceed both of the insurance policies, normally the DRIVER, since he is the tortfeasor or person that caused the damage, is personally responsible for damages exceeding those two policies.
There is a situation which very rarely arises and that would subject the OWNER to those damages personally if both policies were exhausted. You would have to show that the owner was guilty of negligently entrusting the vehicle to the friend or possibly if the owner of the vehicle failed to keep his vehicle in proper working condition and that failure was the cause of the wreck.
Sorry Dragginass even though you changed the facts of your scenario, you are still mistaken. Borrowing a vehicle because it can't haul a 4 wheeler does not mean that it is a temporary substitute under the policy language of most, if not all, auto liability insurance policies. Because it does not qualify as a temporary substitute or rental vehicle, the owners policy comes first and the driver's policy comes second. In any event, other than the negligent entrustment argument or disrepair argument, the DRIVER is ALWAYS personally responsible for any damages that exceed the applicable insurance policies.
There is a situation which very rarely arises and that would subject the OWNER to those damages personally if both policies were exhausted. You would have to show that the owner was guilty of negligently entrusting the vehicle to the friend or possibly if the owner of the vehicle failed to keep his vehicle in proper working condition and that failure was the cause of the wreck.
Sorry Dragginass even though you changed the facts of your scenario, you are still mistaken. Borrowing a vehicle because it can't haul a 4 wheeler does not mean that it is a temporary substitute under the policy language of most, if not all, auto liability insurance policies. Because it does not qualify as a temporary substitute or rental vehicle, the owners policy comes first and the driver's policy comes second. In any event, other than the negligent entrustment argument or disrepair argument, the DRIVER is ALWAYS personally responsible for any damages that exceed the applicable insurance policies.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 12:46 pm to GaryMyMan
You are sighting the statute that applies to Temporary, Substatute and Rental vehicles. The scenario provided above does not place the car into the a "temporary, Substatute, rental car". As those may fall under the standard to which insurance comes first. I can pull virtually any policy for you but they all read about the same.
THis is from State Farms policy:
"Temporary Substatute Car means a car that is in the lawful possession of the person operating it and that:
1. replaces your car for a short time while your car is out of use due to its:
A. Breakdown;
B. Repair;
C. Servicing;
D. Damage; or
E. Theft; and
2. Neither you nor the perso operating it own or have registered."
The above condition is not what the original person asked; nor does it likely fall under the scenario I of the borrowing the car to tow a trailer which is a different scenario from the origanum poster.
RS. 22:296 that is scited is an ex exception to the rule. In neither are do you fall under this exception.
An example for the revised statute is when you rent a car from Avis and you purchase their additional insurance coverage for the $12.00 a day. That coverage would come before coverage on the vehicle.
THis is from State Farms policy:
"Temporary Substatute Car means a car that is in the lawful possession of the person operating it and that:
1. replaces your car for a short time while your car is out of use due to its:
A. Breakdown;
B. Repair;
C. Servicing;
D. Damage; or
E. Theft; and
2. Neither you nor the perso operating it own or have registered."
The above condition is not what the original person asked; nor does it likely fall under the scenario I of the borrowing the car to tow a trailer which is a different scenario from the origanum poster.
RS. 22:296 that is scited is an ex exception to the rule. In neither are do you fall under this exception.
An example for the revised statute is when you rent a car from Avis and you purchase their additional insurance coverage for the $12.00 a day. That coverage would come before coverage on the vehicle.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:00 pm to Bigsweet
So there's not a Revised Statute in either Title 22 or even 32 that covers this scenario? It's up to the individual insurance policy to set the definitions?
That's weird.
That's weird.
This post was edited on 9/14/16 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:21 pm to GaryMyMan
It's been several years since I worked as an insurance adjuster for autos, but I think Texas is the only state where the insurance follows the driver in a borrowed vehicle scenario. Unless laws have changed in the 15 or so years since that awful job.
Pretty sure it follows the vehicle in Louisiana, and the driver's would be secondary if liability maxes were exceeded on the owner's policy, or bodily injury claims exceeded the max coverage.
Pretty sure it follows the vehicle in Louisiana, and the driver's would be secondary if liability maxes were exceeded on the owner's policy, or bodily injury claims exceeded the max coverage.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:23 pm to Jdub
quote:
Jdub
this guy gets it.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 1:38 pm to Jdub
The OP was asking about medical/liability rather than a "collision" coverage issue. I think you may be right regarding the collision claim, but liability remains on the driver's policy, and not the owner's.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 2:19 pm to dragginass
Jesus christ people. this was the question:
The insurance on the vehicle will be primary. If the damages caused by the driver exceed the limits of the vehicle's policy, then the driver and/or his insurance policy (provided he has a policy) will fall in line next.
quote:
who is responsible if the medical costs exceed the owner of the vehicles insurance policy? driver of the vehicle or owner?
The insurance on the vehicle will be primary. If the damages caused by the driver exceed the limits of the vehicle's policy, then the driver and/or his insurance policy (provided he has a policy) will fall in line next.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 2:51 pm to Motorboat
Thanks for all of the great responses.
what difference does it make if the vehicle was loaned for leisure or if the vehicle was loaned due to the drivers vehicle being loaned due to repairs?
what difference does it make if the vehicle was loaned for leisure or if the vehicle was loaned due to the drivers vehicle being loaned due to repairs?
Posted on 9/14/16 at 3:10 pm to diat150
quote:
what difference does it make if the vehicle was loaned for leisure or if the vehicle was loaned due to the drivers vehicle being loaned due to repairs?
None. The latter scenario applies to "loaner" vehicles from dealerships and repair shops. They are handled like rental cars and the primary insurance follows the driver.
Posted on 9/14/16 at 4:45 pm to diat150
The only way I can think of that the owner of the vehicle would be personally liable for damages beyond the liability coverage (whether it was from the driver, the car, or both) would be a negligent entrustment claim.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 1:01 pm to dragginass
15 years ago I was at LSU and i borrowed my girlfriends car to buy a new car battery for my car. I got into an accident on Lee that was technically my fault due to making a left turn. The guy I hit went after my insurance to get a payout for some sketchy non-existent injuries. I know the personal injury claim was on my insurance, I don't remember if the car damage came out of mine or hers.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 1:37 pm to diat150
Driver
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