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re: Why men's basketball has struggled so much offensively
Posted on 1/27/23 at 9:34 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 1/27/23 at 9:34 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
quote:
To just say "it's a talent issue" is lazy.
Nah, it just really is that simple.
Well he better get off his arse and start bringing some in or the results aren't going to improve.
0
Posted on 1/27/23 at 9:52 pm to Alt26
Damn. I didn’t know this.
Posted on 1/28/23 at 8:02 am to Lester Earl
quote:
To just say "it's a talent issue" is lazy.
Nah, it just really is that simple.
I don't think it is. There is a regression in performance that is unmistakable both individually and team-wise. Players who were at least giving serviceable performances against the 4 decent teams we played early are now tentative and passive. It has become mental as much are more than physical.
Again, both things can be true, and IMHO are true this year, the talent is not great and still underachieves. I can accept where the talent is there is no choice at this point. But I can't accept the other.
Posted on 1/28/23 at 8:07 am to CP3forMVP
That info is useless if your players cannot shoot the basketball. Shooting is the main problem. Shooting can always get better through repetition and confidence. Wait till next year right?
Posted on 1/28/23 at 8:48 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
There is a regression in performance that is unmistakable both individually and team-wise.
You can’t regress from a 2 game sample size, because that isn’t who you are as a player. Yet that seems to be the standard you are trying to hold those players to.
Basketball is a game of runs, both game & season-long. The highest of high is never who you are
What players have played consistently over multiple games?
Posted on 1/28/23 at 8:54 am to Yeahright
quote:
Shooting can always get better through repetition and confidence. Wait till next year right?
That's all I'm saying. We've seen it before where a kid who struggles shooting early improves as the year goes on. Hell, look at Eason last year...bad shooter pre-conference against lesser competition, over 40% 3-pt shooter in SEC play. No one would ever have said he was a good shooter at any point in his career before that.
What we've seen of late is just the opposite. Regression in performance not progress.
Can you name one player on the team who has progressed? Improved as the year has gone? Maybe Ward yet he can't get on the court enough to see for sure.
I would like to see some of that. There is ball left to play. All I hear is we don't have talent - that's that, let's play out the string and as you say....wait till next year.
No, let's not. Let's fight, let's work to improve. Let's find a way to maximize what we have and steadily improve not regress and get worse each game, which is what we are doing of late. Let's find a guy who was struggling but works and wants it and gets better. Hell let's find two or three of those.
Posted on 1/28/23 at 9:04 am to Lester Earl
quote:
You can’t regress from a 2 game sample size, because that isn’t who you are as a player. Yet that seems to be the standard you are trying to hold those players to.
I'm pointing to four games Lester and you know the four. Your argument is that's still not enough - that any team can get up for four random games - that's of little value. I disagree.
It's enough in my mind to see regression. if it's not enough for you, fair enough, what about progression, improvement? Do you see any? From any player?
For you it's just we suck and have no talent, case closed. There's no hope for any of that because there's nothing in there to where any of these guys can get better individually or otherwise, no matter what we do.
I just don't buy that.
I'm not out on CMM yet, that's not my point. There's still ball left to play. What I'm saying is it's time to see improvement over regression...in any facet. You don't think there's regression that's fine we won't agree there.
Then let's start seeing improvement. You seem to be saying that's not possible we have Horizon League talent and it can't happen. I do not agree.
For me the biggest hurdle is mental, and that's more difficult to navigate than the physical.
Posted on 1/28/23 at 10:35 am to Lester Earl
quote:
What players have played consistently over multiple games?
Most of our guys are consistent, but not in a positive way. Most have major flaws, our opponents know them, and they defend our guys accordingly.
Miller is s step slow, they crowd him.
Hannibal can’t shoot, they slough off to stop the dribble drive.
Williams can’t be left open deep, but he’s not hard to guard in the paint.
You know the others and their flaws. As a group there are no shooters. No big post players. No snipers.
Recruiting is our big need. Does McMahon have big NIL allies? Who are our basketball allies? Without NIL help we are dead in the water.
This post was edited on 1/28/23 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 1/28/23 at 11:58 am to barry
quote:
I'm guessing because he basically has the backing of the AD for a rebuild and he doesn't need to "win now" that he'd rather install his system and get guys reps vs. run something else and win an extra 4 games or just be more competitive, which really nets him nothing. There is also the option that he is just being stubborn and/or underestimated how bad it would be. This is also probably the deepest SEC in a decade plus.
Quote possible there is some of both going on.
Posted on 1/28/23 at 12:02 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
it's not enough for you, fair enough, what about progression, improvement? Do you see any? From any player?
No. Because when the strength of schedule increases, I don’t expect bad players to get better.
quote:
I'm pointing to four games Lester and you know the four
I mean they are 2-8 in Q1 & Q2 games. They have lost to just about everyone with a chance to play in the postseason.
It’s not all the unique for bad teams to play a few close games against better teams. The pattern is more discernible when you watch the NBA. The gap can be large but the margins are not always large in a vacuum.
Posted on 1/28/23 at 1:19 pm to CP3forMVP
What good does it do to teach your system to players that probably won't even be here next season? The three from Murray State that supposedly already knew the system are gone after this year. Two of the three freshmen who have had very little playing time will probably head for the portal. Miller is also likely heading to the portal if he can find a team that wants him. That leaves us with Fountain, Hayes, Reid, and Williams. Gonna be a whole lot of new players.
Posted on 1/28/23 at 2:28 pm to BilbeauTBaggins
quote:
We have Transfer Portal leftovers in a brand new team trying to figure it out. Turnovers kill our defense.
THIS ISNT LEFTOVERS! 3 STARTERS came with him from a team that won 31 games. This team can’t fricking rebound or want to play defense for 4 quarters. THAT IS THE ISSUE IN A NUTSHELL.
The talent is there. The effort is NOT
Posted on 1/29/23 at 8:04 am to Lester Earl
quote:
No. Because when the strength of schedule increases, I don’t expect bad players to get better.
Again we disagree, I do expect players who are given D-1 scholarships - several of whom were given D-1 one scholarships at P5 programs previously at other schools as welland others who were fairly highly recruited players like Reed, Ward and Justice Williams to improve and develop.
Hell Tari Eason was a bench player at Cincinatti who could not shoot a lick....he developed, he improved.
quote:
I mean they are 2-8 in Q1 & Q2 games. They have lost to just about everyone with a chance to play in the postseason.
Again, four teams we played up against are better IMHO than Texas Tech, Florida and Texas A&M - and the A&M game we had zero effort and engergy and that was inexcusable - quit rationalizing underachievement.
As I've said several times here a team can both be somewhat talent deficient and still not play up to a reasonable standard. And in my opinion that is what is happening right now.
I have not given up on CMM, many have and I understand that to some extent given recent performances and curious coaching decisions. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
But he is definitely not immune to reasonable criticism.
Posted on 1/29/23 at 8:10 am to Tiger Ugly
Pretty Simple - this is the only team I’ve ever seen that throws up bricks on layups
Posted on 1/29/23 at 2:39 pm to Neilfish
quote:
Pretty Simple - this is the only team I’ve ever seen that throws up bricks on layups
I see that with Reed and it's frustrating. I mean he shows skill aplenty until it comes time to putting in in the hole then - he just can't.
He really played hard yesterday and to be honest that's not something we've seen consistently from too many of our kids outside Hannibal of late. He rebounded and blocked shots yesterday like I've never seen him to this point and I commend him for that step he took. But he can still make a layup look like a hook shot from the corner.
Posted on 1/29/23 at 5:43 pm to CP3forMVP
Everything pointed out is correct, but the bottom line is that there is no talent on the team. Less than 50% make rate for the season on dunks and layups is the most appalling offensive stat I've ever heard.
Lazy passers, and horrible shooting. That is the description of a bad bb team, and LSU has one.
Lazy passers, and horrible shooting. That is the description of a bad bb team, and LSU has one.
Posted on 1/29/23 at 5:59 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Talent issue. / thread
I’m not ready to judge McMahon yet but are we sure it’s a talent issue?
Everyone here was praising him for the masterful job he did in the portal and we had a decent recruiting class. There is also a lot of experience on this team.
I think we will be significantly less talented next year.
Posted on 1/29/23 at 6:01 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Transfer class was ranked 11th
Freshman class 17th
We returned 3 guys with 76 combined starts for tourney teams that were 8, 6 and 1 seeds. There are plenty of teams with a lot less talent having much better seasons than us but it’s every else’s fault except the common denominator.
Freshman class 17th
We returned 3 guys with 76 combined starts for tourney teams that were 8, 6 and 1 seeds. There are plenty of teams with a lot less talent having much better seasons than us but it’s every else’s fault except the common denominator.
This post was edited on 1/29/23 at 6:03 pm
Posted on 1/29/23 at 9:44 pm to Madking
If the players can't score and rebound then how the hell did they get a p5 D1 scholarship and everyone keeps talking about how great the sec is this year they got there arse handed to them in the big 12 sec challenge,if McMahon doesn't start getting in somebody's arse and demanding more effort and passion and showing some fight this won't get turned around your players play like you coach
Posted on 1/30/23 at 6:35 am to Tiger in Co
quote:
If the players can't score and rebound then how the hell did they get a p5 D1 scholarship and everyone keeps talking about how great the sec is this year they got there arse handed to them in the big 12 sec challenge,if McMahon doesn't start getting in somebody's arse and demanding more effort and passion and showing some fight this won't get turned around your players play like you coach
I think this is fair. Nobody can shoot I'm told. Well how do we practice shooting? The thought that if you can't shoot you can't shoot there's no fixing it is ridiculous. We've seem many, many players over the years improve their shooting, it's honestly the easiest thing in basketball to improve and get better at. We saw Tari Eason make a huge leap in 3 pt. shooting percentage from OOC play to SEC play last year.
Nobody thought we had the talent to compete for an SEC title this year, but at some point as I keep saying you have to concede that a team can have some talent issues and also underachieve relative to that talent and IMHO that's what we are seeing and it's an ugly combination.
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